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Medical care disputes ignited feud

By JOHN RUDOLF
Today's News-Herald
Published Thursday, June 12, 2008 11:40 PM MST

Part two of a


two-part series

On Oct. 24, 2007, John Valentine, general manager of River Medical Inc., the city’s private ambulance service, called his two newest paramedics, Nathan Carter and Peggy Gould, into his office. Recently relocated from Denver, over the previous three weeks the two had clashed with fire department paramedics over patient care and the documentation of emergency calls.

“The fire department wants you guys gone. Vaporized,” Valentine told them. “They don’t want to see you. They don’t want you in their system.”

What Valentine did not realize at the time was that the two paramedics were secretly taping the meeting. In an interview with city investigator Dennis Wilson, Carter and Gould, who are engaged to be married, said they recorded that and subsequent conversations because they feared “something was wrong” with Valentine’s handling of two cases on successive days in which they documented perceived errors in care by Lake Havasu City Fire Department paramedics. In both instances, the patients died. The tapes are contained in Wilson’s full investigative file.

The recordings, which span several meetings, reveal how fallout from Carter and Gould’s clashes with fire department paramedics escalated into an full-blown feud between River Medical and the fire department over control of emergency medical care in the city.

“I don’t think you understand what the ramifications of this are,” Valentine told them in the recording. “I don’t know how to fix this.”

For Valentine, the stakes were high. A day earlier, Battalion Chief Rick Felish, the direct supervisor of the fire department’s emergency medical services, had issued a department-wide memo by e-mail upending the department’s longstanding emergency care arrangement with River Medical.

“Effective immediately Lake Havasu Fire Department will assume an aggressive posture as the Primary Care Provider on all EMS calls,” Felish wrote.

Felish ordered his paramedics to assert control over all medical calls, even those where River Medical was already on scene. Paramedics were told remain in control of care even as patients were being transported to Havasu Regional Medical Center in River Medical ambulances. Felish further instructed his paramedics to withhold medical documents from River Medical employees.

While not naming Gould, Carter and Valentine outright, Felish made clear where he believed the root of the problem lay.

“The newest employees and supervisor seem to be the catalyst for the problems… be aware!” Felish wrote.

Valentine issued a brief statement about the paramedic investigation, but declined comment on the content of the recordings, “Because of the ongoing investigation by the city, River Medical will not comment on personnel issues relating to these matters, and will not offer any opinions or speculations regarding any actions or statements made by Rick Felish,” he wrote. He denied improperly handling any complaints about patient care.

The apparent trigger for Felish’s memo was an emergency call for Terri Taylor, a 72-year-old woman in cardiac arrest during which River Medical paramedic Gould raised concerns about the use of a particular medication by fire department paramedics Joe Tobin and Nick Hovdal.

According to the city investigator’s report, Tobin described Gould as stating “If you give that drug, you’re going to kill that patient.”

Taylor’s husband, Donald Taylor, 65, had no recollection of any such statement being made. “I watched the whole thing from start to finish,” he said in an interview. “I didn’t hear anything said by a woman.”

Gould admitted raising doubts about the drug, vasopressin, but denied saying that it could kill the patient. According to national guidelines, vasopressin is not contraindicated for unconscious cardiac arrest patients such as Taylor, who died the next day.

Gould also complained about Tobin’s timing of other heart medications and his use of shock paddles.

Despite the conflicting accounts, Felish blasted Gould in the memo.

“RMI personnel have openly, on-scene accused LHCFD medics of improper medication administration in front of family, creating an aire (sic) of malpractice for LHCFD,” Felish wrote.

Felish failed to state in the memo that the day before the Taylor incident, Lake Havasu City paramedic Mike Partain had drawn up and handed off for injection the incorrect medication for a 45-year-old woman suffering from a stroke. She later died in a Las Vegas hospital.

The medication error had been properly recorded and reported by River Medical paramedic Carter.

Soon after Felish issued his memo, Carter and Gould were out of the system, transferred first to River Medical stations in Parker, and then on to Quartzsite.

In an administrative report issued in late May, investigator Wilson cited the Valentine recordings and Felish’s memo as supportive of Carter and Gould’s contention that they were targeted for retaliation by fire department leadership after reporting alleged medical errors by fire department paramedics.

Felish did not respond to requests for comment.

Wilson’s report alleges that Felish violated the city’s code of ethics by failing to properly investigate complaints about substandard performance by paramedics under his supervision and improperly pressuring River Medical to transfer Carter and Gould out of Lake Havasu City.

Fire Chief Dennis Mueller is also accused of violating the code of ethics, by failing to follow city procedures for investigating allegations of substandard performance of his subordinates and complaints of harassment by fire department personnel against Gould and Carter.

The three paramedic-firefighters named in the report are Partain, Hovdal and Tobin.

In an interview Wednesday, Fire Chief Dennis Mueller discussed the report specifically for the first time. He acknowledged Partain’s medication error, but said that Debra Gulyanics, medical director at Havasu Regional Medical Center, who oversees all EMS care in the city, had dealt with his error.

Tobin, accused in the report of violating medical protocols and falsifying records related to his treatment of a 72-year-old woman in cardiac arrest, was cleared by Gulyanics of any wrongdoing, Mueller said.

“Everything I’ve found out so far says, in the Tobin incident, he did his job. He saved a life. He brought a person that was clinically dead to the hospital with pulse and respiration,” Mueller said.

Tobin was also not found to have altered medical documents in the incident, Mueller said. “The question about that whole incident was the documentation, was the documentation properly filed. From what the hospital’s told me, it was,” he said.

Sheena Benson, a spokeswoman for Havasu Regional Medical Center, declined to discuss the paramedic investigation in depth. “Havasu Regional Medical Center is aware of the issue with the paramedics and we are looking into the situation at the hospital level,” Benson wrote in a statement.

A letter from Gulyanics to Rick Felish and John Valentine, dated Oct. 25, 2007, states “the concerns regarding the medication administration and documentation discrepancies are of valid concern and have been discussed with the specific paramedics involved.”

The letter does not address paramedic Gould’s allegations that she was pressured to sign a patient care form she believed was inaccurate. “The documentation that was presented as the patient record was signed by all parties involved,” Gulyanics wrote. “This reveals that all parties agreed, at the time, that it was as accurate as possible.”

Mueller called Felish’s memo changing the fire department’s EMS protocols “inappropriate,” and said that the order had been immediately reversed when it came to his attention. Felish was also disciplined over the memo.

Mueller said he had concerns about Partain’s compliance with hospital sanctions after the medication error. According to hospital documents, Partain ignored repeated requests to perform an annual pharmaceutical review and only complied after being threatened with suspension of his medical privileges by Danielle Stello, the pre-hospital care coordinator for Havasu Regional Medical Center.

No disciplinary sanctions have yet been taken against any fire department personnel named in the paramedic investigation.

Carter and Gould are no longer employed by River Medical. Carter resigned, and Gould was terminated after a supervisor ruled that she had lied during the filing of a sexual harassment complaint. Gould, who disputes the ruling, is now weighing legal action against the company.

Editor’s note: Part one of this series referenced a Lake Havasu City police department incident report which triggered the initial investigation of alleged misconduct by fire department paramedics. The police contact was made by a friend of Walter Gould, River Medical paramedic Peggy Gould’s father, not by Walter Gould himself, as originally reported. The online version of the story has been updated to reflect this correction.

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Comments (131 comment(s))

    Get a LIFE wrote on Jun 20, 2008 8:41 PM:

    " Good god! dont you people have lives?!?!?!?youre all fighting about something that doesnt even involve you with people you dont know over the internet on a newspaper article!! do you always believe what you read? you know they cannot state all of the facts! stop being pathetic and get a life! "

    Haystacks in Havasu wrote on Jun 20, 2008 7:22 PM:

    " If - Seems to me YOU"RE still reading the OPINIONS on here. And I think what was said was "Some people are keeping quiet today". Doesn't mean they're not reading. You're another hypocrite. In one breath you say "you have your opinion, and others have theirs". But when someone doesn't have the same OPINIONS as you or others on here, they are called names, accused of being high and almighty, etc.. Where do you and those people get off thinking this way?! Then if we say anything about THAT, you get even MORE angry. Everyone has a right to voice what they think. EVERYONE is entitled to their OPINIONS. And it seems that anyone who has the nerve to speak up and to expose the wrong going on for the betterment of the community and all involved, and/or anyone who defends them, can "be dammed". It angers you that someone has the nerve to speak up about the wrong going on. What does that say about you and the others!!!! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. "

    Hee Haw wrote on Jun 20, 2008 6:59 PM:

    " Another one bites the dust. ("IF"'s comments) "

    laughin at you wrote on Jun 20, 2008 6:39 PM:

    " I am wearing it and it fits just right! And I never said I was God, I just said I was praying for everyone. I am sure you are not suggesting that God's help isn't worthy. Are you? And its seems the slamming is of the door. God Bless you and Happy trails! I hope tomorrow we have a new article to bate and debate. This has really been fun. LOL "

    IF wrote on Jun 20, 2008 5:48 PM:

    " Maybe no one is responding to your high and mighty comments, is because they are tired of reading them. You are not God therefor, you should not judge. You are just as bad, as the ones who say the emts are innocent. You have your opinion and others have theirs. That doesn't make any of you right. The forum is for discussing, not slamming others, which some of you are certainly proficent at. IF the shoe fits, wear it! "

    Haystacks in Havasu wrote on Jun 20, 2008 5:44 PM:

    " You're right - laughin at you. And I can tell you one reason there are some keeping quiet today. They figure saying anything more is just going to add to the can of worms that's already been opened. I think about all has been said that can be said, for now, by all sides. I'm looking forward to the next article too. You don't suppose another "memo" was put out do you? Suggesting (demanding) not to respond anymore on this forum, or some jobs might be on the line maybe? Someone could be afraid somebody might slip and say “spill the beans” in the heat of the moment and in all this anger surfacing. "

    Hee Haw wrote on Jun 20, 2008 4:46 PM:

    " Yea Ralph,
    What's it matter to ya? I reckon you must be one of dem dare quilty ones. Yer a fer piece off a da main road sayin we's is pesimists! I'll bet your glass is pletely emty! Ways I sees it, is all ussun's have a right to holler and be herd! No matta who yer ma n' pa are. Why, I even know what DNA stands fer - Drugs n' Alcohol!
    Thank ya mighty kindly News Harold! (Ya think ol Ralph aint got no cents a humer?) "

    laughin at you wrote on Jun 20, 2008 4:45 PM:

    " Guess Ralph and Bailing hay need to follow their own advise. If your board or just not into this you can leave or just not type. Hello! It is called action and interaction! Bate and debate!I am however really looking forward to the next article on this subject. I do believe its going to get better yet! LOLOLOL Especially since some people seem to be a little quiet today, Wonder why? LOLOLOL God Bless the Good old boys, someone needs too! laughin at you "

    there is a dx for that wrote on Jun 20, 2008 4:17 PM:

    " Are you talking to yourself now? "

    Bailing Hay wrote on Jun 20, 2008 2:30 PM:

    " Plus, it's apparent that there is A LOT to be said and heard on this topic. "

    Bailing Hay wrote on Jun 20, 2008 2:27 PM:

    " Hey Ralph -An Internet forum is a web application for holding discussions and posting user-generated content. Internet forums are also commonly referred to as Web forums, newsgroups, message boards, discussion boards, (electronic) discussion groups, discussion forums, bulletin boards, or simply forums. The terms "forum" and "board" may refer to the entire community or to a specific sub-forum dealing with a distinct topic. Messages within these sub-forums are then displayed either in chronological order or as threaded discussions.

    If we were all outside there'd be no forum now would there. What does it matter to YOU who writes what. We are all expressing our views and opinions thanks to the Newspaper.

    School's out. Thank you. "

    Haystacks in Havasu wrote on Jun 20, 2008 2:14 PM:

    " laughin at you – I luv ya! I have the same EXACT sentiments. I’d love to know you personally. "Good ole american hillbillie" accuses others of so much of what HE is guilty of. His writings are all across the board here. He talks of people, who just want good old justice to happen, and the truth revealed, as the ones performing the witch hunts. The only ones in this whole mess so far that have suffered burns, are the Colorado medics. And they weren’t given the chance to feud or debate with anyone before they were nailed to the cross. (Modern day term - "Vaporized"). I think they knew they would be blamed for things they weren't the ones guilty of, and knew they had better cover their rears by recording conversations. When you have the deception and covering up going on that has surfaced here, the ones doing the wrong "hate" people doing right, and want to accuse THEM, to bring them down to THEIR levels. Such as evidenced with "Good old american hillbillie's" writings here. And others. I do believe though, the sister he claimed to have been kissing in school instead of learning, is Fire brat. THEY talk of OUR anger, as if they’re Mary Poppins out on a church picnic. Typical hypocrisy. I guess the guilt feelings and worrying over what’s going to happen and what all is about to surface is taking it’s toll on some of the responders here. It all goes hand in hand. We're accused of being self-righteous, riding a white horse, clean and pure, thinking we're better, etc., when all it comes down to is who's got a clean conscious and who doesn't. And reading this forum makes it clear. I know that I don’t have any sleep aids in my medicine cabinet.

    Hey there Earnest T. Bass! Better stop throwing them rocks! They just might turn into those meteors you speak of.

    “Thank You” Lake Havasu News Herald, for giving us ALL the opportunity to voice our opinions, state some facts, and poke a little fun now and then too. "

    Ralph wrote on Jun 20, 2008 12:51 PM:

    " Everyone in here is a joke. I notice it is the same people posting over and over and over. Go outside! Let the investigation speak for itself when it is done! No one here even knows exactly what happened but are very quick to defend one side or the other. Move on to the next topic all you pessimists. "

    laughin at you wrote on Jun 20, 2008 11:51 AM:

    " I truly agree! Anyone who diverts records by way of removing them from patient files, trash or other means; violates someone privacy like they did the Colorado paramedics, goes against company policy by hiding records and lying, should be fired. LOL the shoe fits! Guess that is what we have all been talking about here. LOL And Good ole american hillbillie, I could never hate you! I don't hate anyone. I may be a little put out because of your attitude but I will never hate you or any of these people. I do and will conintue to pray for you every day as well as the other people involved in all of this. Heaven knows they could use the help. LOL I am not better than you. I am just right! But then you can believe anything you want sweety. LOLOLOL Like I have said trust, truth, humility, charity and Love. Guess you missed that one! LOL And the witch hunt had come to you by the great and mighty LHCFD and RM personel and administration. I think they are trying really hard to burn the Colorado Paramedics. After all they started the fire. The Colorado paramedics are just toasting the marshmellos LOLOL "

    Good ole american hillbillie wrote on Jun 20, 2008 11:00 AM:

    " My my, you assume so much! For all you know I could live in the hills of West Virginia. I quite possibly sit next to you in church..... I do rest my case though! I bet your the one that was the first to scream "burn them" durung the witch hunts. I bet your voice was heard the loudest. Yes, I wanted to stirr the pot. I wanted to see what came to the top. Your anger is very ugly, it clouds your vision. I want people to see that there are some who will bash you to the bitter end because you dont agree with them. You label the ones that don't see things the way you do as hillbillies, unethical, immoral, good ole boys, wrong the bad guys. Why do you see yourself as the "good guys"? You think for some reason your better. Well your not. You were not born with a certificate in hand that says your better then the next person. I want you to hate me, I want you to hate me real bad. I want you to hate me so the world can see you for what you are. I am proud as hell to live in a place where we can have a livley debate and not be beheaded, burned or shot because I don,t agree with you, because I dont see it your way. I'm so proud of this country I even went to war for it..... This hillbillie is done here... God bless the USA "

    Haystacks in Havasu wrote on Jun 20, 2008 10:46 AM:

    " My last posting here was:
    Jun 19, 2008 7:13 PM, when I wrote to "Good old american hillbillie" about his movie star status. Up to that point all the "Haystacks in Havasu" and the very first "HaystacksinHavasu" postings were mine. But now someone has chosen to comment on my behalf. The last posting "Get a life" is not mine. Just as so much else in this entire situation is a cover up or a lie. To the "haystacksinhavasu" who wrote "Get a life", apparently you're to chicken sh_t to EVEN post under an alias! "

    to LAUGHIN at YOU wrote on Jun 20, 2008 8:21 AM:

    " AZ State Law does not allow a health care provider to steal medical information and release medical information. What lawyer are you talking to?

    By the way, since when is diverting a record, violating privacy, and blatantly violating company policy and procedure part and parcel of professional conduct by an AZ-certified paramedic? That is unprofessional conduct if I ever saw it. I don't think you would have the support of ANY Arizona EMT, paramedic, nurse, or physician about that one. I think you would have a very difficult time defending THAT. "

    Thank You wrote on Jun 20, 2008 7:58 AM:

    " Thank you 'come on', this are the people who we need to fire ASAP! "

    laughin at you wrote on Jun 20, 2008 6:35 AM:

    " I find it interesting that some people think throwing around the words subpeona, HIPPA, or stuff like illegal recordings, has not been taken into account by the investigators. You think everyone in here is that stupid? LOL Hello! The truth is in the telling. Oh and fire brat (great name by the way, it fits)LOL, I am sure your Daddy is very proud of your response. It is allways good to know that your children follow orders no matter who gives them, right or wrong. LOL What federal law was broken? State comes first. And boy howdy the State will rule! Since the paramedics involved could not follow proper protocal or algorithms (maybe because they didn't study hard like you LOL)because of their lack of training and because the standards of care are lower in the state of AZ, they are in this situation. Guess that is why the Colorado medics stand in bigger, better shoes LOL Send my reguards to your Daddy. I am sure he is very proud. Maybe as proud as Johnny's mommy. LOLOLOL P.S. It will be a long wait. The real medics don't work there any more. LOLOL "

    haystacksinhavasu wrote on Jun 19, 2008 10:29 PM:

    " get a life! "

    Haystacks in Havasu wrote on Jun 19, 2008 7:13 PM:

    " Good old american hillbillie: I think you were you in "Deliverance". And I don't mean the good guys. You're like the Hillbilly firing squad..... (they all stand in a circle). Hint: You are going to do your own self in, by your words alone. The contempt and loathing you have for good people is scary. "

    come on wrote on Jun 19, 2008 5:54 PM:

    " If you people are going to yak about sh__ you don't know about, get things right. It's CHIEF Mueller, BC Felish, AND GM Valentine. Christ Almighty. I am so sick of hearing about this.

    Hillbillie, I am with you--I have been vomiting for weeks. "

    Good ole american hillbillie wrote on Jun 19, 2008 5:21 PM:

    " I am so sorry so so sorry, you have my pity. You see I am the almighty who has chosen you to be the good ones. I determine the ones that are right, I determine who is ethical and who is not. Even though I dont know any of you. This Hillbillie had to go vomit. Your so so predictable. In hillbillie land you stand and face the one you have a problem with. You put the tape recorder on the table and say lets get to the bottom of it. Not hide it after your caught with your pants down. If your going to make some very serious accusations you better be right and be able to BACK IT UP. Hillbillie says it again, exellent work chief Valentine and chief Felish you took care of the problem just as you are suppose to. Please don't put words in Hillbillie's mouth. People get fired every day right or wrong. We dont't know why any body really got fired do we. OOPS I mean vaporized. I agree one paramedic messed up and made a mistake. I am sure he feels less than human about it. The other case is not so cut and dry. The jury is still out. As to cover ups, no proof. In hillbillie land your innocent until proven guilty and you have the right to face your accuser!..... Hillbillie needs a budwieser "

    laughin at you wrote on Jun 19, 2008 4:36 PM:

    " Trust, truth, charity, compassion, understanding, humility, and love; There is no honor without these things. There are no morals without these things. These are the things that a good society must have. These are the things that make heros. Guess your mama never taught some of you firemen and paremedics what they are. I guess it is just a job for you not a profession. And obviously not calling to better our society, improve safety, and to protect others well being. You can not have it both ways. If your mama taught you these things you would not have be justifying or debating this issue. Nore would you worry about what was done right or wrong. We all know that is a problem in our political system. Evidently in firmen and paramedics. You may justify, debate, get mad, yell and holler. Call me names, do what ever you like but the truth is the truth. Mama allways said "If you have to hide something you are doing, what you are doing is wrong." I think its even called a sin. LOL I used to tell my kids to watch out God will get you for that. So no matter what God will get you for that! LOL And in his time and in his way. "

    to JUSTMYOPINION wrote on Jun 19, 2008 4:13 PM:

    " sorry...I meant to smoking gun... "

    to JUSTMYOPINION wrote on Jun 19, 2008 4:10 PM:

    " these may be obtained during an investigation if they have a subpeona.Did the city manager get a subpeona for the tapes and the written records Peggy and Nathan gave him? Hmmm.. HIPAA !!! = BIG MONEY !!! "

    Fire Brat wrote on Jun 19, 2008 3:02 PM:

    " RMI has some of the most amazing people I have ever met I can honestly say I love those people to death I love them as they where my own family... I would love to see some of you people who bash them stand in there shoes and as for Peggy she has no right to even set foot near a human being or let alone an animal for that matter. She dose not listen to what her superiors say or even what the federal laws say so its just my opinion but if I'm ever hurt I ll wait for a real medic to show up!!!!!!! "

    Enough Already wrote on Jun 19, 2008 2:58 PM:

    " Can we please close this article and move on to something else? It's not like all this bickering will solve anything. It's just got you all going at each other. "

    Haystacks in Havasu wrote on Jun 19, 2008 2:52 PM:

    " California - you are so right! I have lived in several places across the country. I work in the health care industry and have since the early 80's. EVERYWHERE I have lived was the same protocol that you mentioned. Duty of care is transferred from the Fire Department to the responding ambulance service/medics/EMTs -once they are on the scene. The Fire Department was there for back up. They were there BESIDE you when needed, and only in FRONT of you to protect. No where I have lived has the fire departments felt they were superior, like they do here. I don't see too many paramedics from ambulance companies running into burning houses telling the firemen there "Get out of the way - we take precedence!". Like I've said, and others have said on here, "ALL medical care professions have a purpose and reason for being there. It takes all these different capacities, working TOGETHER to successfully and consistently provide good care to the patient". But many here think that if you are not working where they are, you are only a generic imitation of them. Sad. I see there are several in this field with the wrong motives. Clearly they are not in it for the people who are in need of their services. For some, I guess, it is an ego booster, a source of the wrong kind of confidence they are so in need of. To obtain the false satisfaction of thinking they are something they know down deep they're really not, but can't admit or face up to that fact. But ONLY in THEIR minds are they heroes. They mask behind wanting to rescue people and "give dahm when your dying lets see how many other people would stop there lives just to save some ignorant person" (in Fire Brat"s exact words).

    Good old american hillbillie - you should be sorry for a lot more than your illiterate grammatical errors. You have taken part in making the fire department we speak of - look like a laughing stock. If you would have been in New York in 2001, I'd bet my life you would have been running for "dem dare hills" right off the bat. Don’t forget though - watch out for those meteors.

    justmyopinion - are you the same "justmyopinion" who posted the comments to "Fire Brat" yesterday and propoding solutions??!! "

    Haystacks in Havasu wrote on Jun 19, 2008 2:09 PM:

    " HEY "just my opinion" - Before you go spouting off your opinion of what's legal and what's ILLegal, you should know what you're talking about. In the state of Arizona, as long as ONE party taking part in the conversation, knows that the conversation is being recorded - IT IS LEGAL!

    Geezzzzzzzzzz! "

    justmyopinion wrote on Jun 19, 2008 12:39 PM:

    " Here are a few of the issues. I believe the fact that the call was talked about to people who were not directly involved constitutes a HIPAA (if you want to know the correct way to say it). The real problem is that Mr. Valentine was being illegally recorded without his knowledge and consent. If this matter ever came to pass and Mr. Valentine were ever to get terminated or such based on these, he would have a huge legal case. I know John personally. I think he is one of the greatest paramedics that the area has ever seen. There are many sides to this and one day they will come out. I know that JV would never just "Vaporize" someone without going through every other possible means. "

    Smoking Gun wrote on Jun 19, 2008 11:46 AM:

    " Did all of you children forget about the tape recordings? I WOULD be shaking in my boots if I were you. Who knows what Carter and Gould have on tape. Seems to me there was some substance to them. Think long and hard about what they may have caught you saying....Yes YOU!! All of you that are being so arrogant and self righteous should wonder about the conversations they had with you. Seems to me you wouldn't be trying to discredit them if you were not guilty yourselves of something twisted. As for the HIPPA violation: read the HIPPA rules then come back and post something once you have some knowledge about the subject. Other Uses or Disclosures That Can Be Made Without Consent or Authorization
    - As required during an investigation by law enforcement agencies
    - To avert a serious threat to public health and safety
    - To workers’ compensation or similar programs for the processing of claims
    - In response to a legal proceeding or subpoena "

    to peggys mom wrote on Jun 19, 2008 10:14 AM:

    " read the report from the investigator! there is a HIPPA violation! HAHAHA and to say that she doesn't post on this web site. yeah right "

    Haystacks in Havasu wrote on Jun 19, 2008 9:48 AM:

    " To "Peggy's Mom" and Nicole, and especially Peggy and Nathan,

    I doubt that any of you have received any kind of apology as of yet. If all I have read and researched on this matter is true, and two good paramedics were "vaporized" for standing up and doing what is right, I'm going to say "I am SO sorry". And it IS of my opinion that is exactly what happened here.I am truly sorry, that through the actions of some selfish and self serving people, that we lost you serving our community. I am sorry for what you and your families have endured.

    I am really ashamed, alone - just by some of the comments posted here, of our ff/medic department especially. I'm starting to wonder if some children aren't replying on here or something, just to stir things up. Surely our Fire Department and people surrounding them, in charge of them. etc., wouldn't make comments such as what has been written on this forum! I lowered myself to respond to these ridiculous and insane comments by some, but I don’t regret it. I am so angered by what is happening here, and feel that something needs to be said. More people need to speak up everywhere, not just here, but across the entire nation, and expose the corruption going on in their towns and communities. We need to relay the message that we're not going to put up with these kind of actions by these bullies anymore.

    Just as we are told that in all wars there are casualties, I imagine that there will be many repercussions suffered by speaking up. But it has to be done. I have always been one to speak up against wrongdoers, MANY times costing me. I KNOW what Peggy and Nathan have gone through. But please tell them to stick to their guns. The "smoking guns" as "good old american hillbillie" put it. He started out quick to blame, criticize and ridicule, but then when it came back on him, he accused others of doing such. I didn't realize how many hypocritical, unethical people we had serving our city here.

    It will all come out - who did what, said what, covered up what, etc. People will know that Peggy and Nathan acted good and just. And I could say in the end everyone will know -and they will. But this is an unending battle everywhere. We have these bigoted people who only care about "their side of the hill" and what they can get, no matter whose feet they step on. They can sure dish it out, but as evidenced here, can't take a millionth of what they've put others through. So typical.

    Peggy, Nathan, - please don't change your ways. This country needs a lot more people like you and your families. Your good actions WILL be rewarded - you'll see. The communities who now are now benefitting from your services should be very grateful and proud to have acquired you in their midst now. Everything happens for a reason ....... "

    Wow wrote on Jun 19, 2008 9:40 AM:

    " Hey, John Valentine, are you shaking in your boots?! Are you on the hot seat?! Peggy's mommy thinks so. Did you tell your mommy about all this? Do you think your mommy needs to defend you? What a joke. "

    PS wrote on Jun 19, 2008 9:32 AM:

    " There IS a HIPAA violation. Mark my word. That fine is a hum-dinger. "

    To Peggys mom wrote on Jun 19, 2008 9:29 AM:

    " Another "expert" on the scene. "

    California wrote on Jun 19, 2008 9:03 AM:

    " The public is mis-guided we don't need to agencies doing the same job and fire departments should only respond when needed the only reason they are running medical aids is they aren't fighting fire anymore and you can't justify a huge salary with lavish benefits to the tax payers sitting around all day we as citizens need to sit down and re-vamp our city resources "

    California wrote on Jun 19, 2008 8:58 AM:

    " I as well as my fellow co workers have been following this story too as RMI was purchased by American Medical Response what's going on with LHFD is nothing new poor pre hospital care has been been provided by fire departments for years like i've been told by many firefighter's they only got their paramedic liscense to get a fire job or they did it for the 18% to 20% pay raise oh yeah after 9/11 they were celebrating all they to the bank saying that was the best PR to the public ever here in california in my county transporting agency has medical authority as soon as we get on scene care is transferred and the firefighter only goes to the hospital when needed "

    Good ole american hillbillie wrote on Jun 19, 2008 8:51 AM:

    " Sad but true. This whole matter is mostly a bunch of BS. He said, she said! No proof! you said it yourself, you dont know the players. Then we have a bunch of horn blowing self promoting know it alls who think their opinion and view of right and wrong is worth more than the next guys. To the PC self righteous do gooders get back on your white horse and go find a worth while crusade to fight. A charlottain is also one who perpetates a fraud.If it fits wear it. Sorry for my gramatical errors I was kissing my sister in school instead of learnig to spell. To the players! dont worry the horn blowers will soon move on to their next big adventure and will blow their horns louder than ever! and you will be forgotten. Hillbillies survive in the hills and valleys of life!!! "

    Peggys Mom wrote on Jun 19, 2008 6:43 AM:

    " I am one of the Paramedics Mother. And although my daughter will not respond on this garbage I will. My daughter went to one of the toughest paramedics school in this country and graduated 3rd in her class. She worked well and did an honerable job on the streets of Denver. She has done more, seen more and been accountable for more than all of the LHCFD emts put together and probably the River Medical Paramedics as well. That is why they wanted them at River Medical. They wanted to come here to be closer to family. To enjoy a small town life. Unfortunatly for them and fortunatly for you, they discovered a big problem in this town. There was no HIPPA violation since there had never been any medical information passed to us or anyone by them in any way. It was the harrassment that they have endured because of the unethical and immoral actions of a few fire/emts, that created the problem plus corusion, and destroying documentation and or removing them from patient files. It was not about I am good you are not. It was not about who is who but about who is not doing the right things. There was no conspirecy or seedy disires on their part. They just wanted to do their jobs RIGHT and expected others to do the same. I am sorry they have a higher standard than what is required here. I an not sorry about them showing this area what is happening and not happening in this system of mismannaged, ill informed, poorly trained firemen and emts (not paramedics in my book). I am not sorry that Mr. Valentine is and will be on the hot seat for his involvment in this. It is not just the firedepartment and their emts. But by these comments I see the kind of harrassment and unethical comments that they have had to endure. Mistakes do happen in all fields of medicine, but when you know you do something wrong and you try and hide it so no one will see, what do we call it? No matter what you say to justify that or what you do to not make it so, It is wrong. We punnish our children for hiding the truth but it is OK if adults do this? That is the morals and ethics we have tried to teach our children through their lives. I feel badly for the mothers and fathers that failed in this case. At least I am very proud of my daughter to standing up for what is right, just and true. I guess she passed the test and so did I. "

    Haystacks in Havasu wrote on Jun 18, 2008 9:22 PM:

    " Ha Ha Ha Ha. Oh my gosh. Please ! Good ole American hillbillie - I believe you mean ”charlatan”. The word “charlatan” came from the Italian city of Cerreto, once famous for its quacks. You said it all!!! Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha This is just too funny!!! Sad, but funny. "

    Needles wrote on Jun 18, 2008 8:45 PM:

    " Hey stack. Sounds to me liek you are poking at other posters on here, but your kind wouldn't do that now owuld they. Who made you the ruler "

    Good ole american hillbillie wrote on Jun 18, 2008 4:00 PM:

    " If you have the smoking gun can we please see it so we can put this to bed! It has been almost nine months since this has started and there is still no smoking gun. All we have is a paramedic who drew up the wrong medicine and handed it to the nurse in the ER. He admitted to that. Online experts what do we do about it? Do we tar and feather him? Do we flog him for hours in public? The rest is he said she said BS. No proof! there probably never will be any proof. If you have it! lets see it! Put up or shut up. To the charlottains who claim to have done their "homework". Unless you have interviewed ALL the players, reviewed ALL the documents, listened to the hours of tapes and are framiliar with EMS procedures then stop the sharade you are not educated on this matter. Its your opinion and that only. I have found in my many years that the most simple explination is usually the right answer. Two people could'nt get along with the rest and they were vaporized. Life goes on! Life on this billies hill is good. LOL LOL LOL "

    Sissy one wrote on Jun 18, 2008 2:54 PM:

    " Haystack,It is obvious that some have hit one or two of your nerves also. Or doesn't your "kind" have nerves?? It does seem that you are trying to settle this all on your own. Because something is in black and white, doesn't make it 100% true. What we need is a mediator. Enough said! "

    Good ole american hillbillie wrote on Jun 18, 2008 11:26 AM:

    " I find these comments to be interesting to say the least. Since when are you the one who determines rigth from wrong. What authority do you command? Come down from your high moral perch and see the world for what it is. It is not black and white but many shades of gray. We create the world around us. I have know idea who was was right or wrong in this. I do know that there are many moving parts and they all played a role in it some how. It finally came down to the lowest common denominator. None of you have any idea what took place and yet some how you seem to think you are the experts in all of this . As I said before quit looking through the peep hole in the door your hiding behind. We ask these men and women to do what ninety nine percent of of us dont have the brains, brawn or stomach for. I personally want someone with that BRAVADO the the fire department and ambulance workers posses, its called confidence. I do not want some spineless limp noodle if or when I need 911. I live in the real world. What if a meteor hit the earth tomorrow! what will we do then.... Keep paying those taxes!!!! "

    Haystacks in Havasu wrote on Jun 18, 2008 10:53 AM:

    " And by the way "Needle", I'm not going to try and "figure out" anything out I'm not qualified or trained to figure out or deal with. Get the point Needle? "

    Possible Solution wrote on Jun 18, 2008 10:45 AM:

    " I have a possible solution to avoid this type of "Too many chiefs not enough Indians" problem. Aren’t there several firemen who work for LHCFD and also work for AMR, the new owners of River Medical? Wouldn’t it be in all our best interest to have one of them as a liaison between the two parties to avoid this in the future? "

    Bailing Hay wrote on Jun 18, 2008 10:10 AM:

    " Good ole american hillbillie - "The meek shall inherit the earth". And you, my friend, need some serious counseling. Whatever happened to being down to earth and humble? Those are traits so many of you are lacking in all of this. You and several others strike back at those of us who posess these good qualities, with an angered jealousy. And you seem to think we are not entitled to anything. Only thing anyone is entitled to here, in your thinking, is our taxes being used and abused by such as yourself. Well let me tell you this Hatfield; "I and all the rest of the people who pay taxes here, DO have a say, and are entitled to the rights and benefits that are supposed to accompany paying taxes. Go do your bullying with the McCoys. Not the innocent and good people who come to this town, or are from here, trying to make an honest dollar. "

    Haystacks in Havasu wrote on Jun 18, 2008 9:55 AM:

    " Well, like they say, I guess the truth hurts. And I can clearly see I've upset and immensely hurt some of your feelings. And to those people - your comments clearly tell what kind of people you are. It's why this is all happening to begin with. And the reason we are here - people like you. I have never seen or heard of such insubordination, discord, deceitfullness, and plain bad ehtics in a department - ever before! What have you all lowered yourselves too?!
    Really sad! I'll repeat "There are other deep rooted issues arising out of all this." This all needs to be looked at in great length and detail!

    Sissy one - I Have no "personal bond" with anyone in any of this, nor do I even KNOW any of the people involved. I'm am solely a concerned resident of this community, who has done my homework in researching this before I speak, or write. Something you and Fire brat need to do. At least read what I write with better understanding before responding. I see where the resident's feelings and opinions here in Lake Havasu City don't matter one bit with you and your kind. And I ALSO SEE, just like the two medics from Colorado, what happens when you speak up and out - the truth. God help us. "

    exellent work wrote on Jun 18, 2008 8:52 AM:

    " hillbillie, you call this exellent work??? wrong medication given, falsified documents. would you still be laughing if this happend to you? "

    Good ole american hillbillie wrote on Jun 18, 2008 8:28 AM:

    " Exellent work chief Felish and chief Valintine! You had a problem and you delt with it. Excuse me, you vaporized it. The last thing I want is chaos at my emergency scene. Problems are delt with every day in this country. Some times the world isnt fair but that is the way it is. Sorry all you PC bleeding hearts. I dont care who you are or what your dream is you are not entitled to any thing. There is a simple universal law. The strong and adaptable are able to survive, the weak and unadaptable will perish or become vaporized. This Lake Havasu City not Denver, New York, or Timbuktu. Lake Havasu has an EMS system that has worked for a long time. A problem arrived and it was delt with, again, it happens all over all the time. To all of you arm chair quarterbacks you were not there so you have no clue what happened or took place. What about all the people who relocated here and have made it and prospered. They made it because they could adapt to the new enviorment. If I joined the elks club and then started acting a fool you can rest assure they would vaporize me and quick. These poor colorado folks are in the situation they are in because of there own actions, life is about the choices we make! You can call me a good ole boy a hillbillie or what ever I still have a job and there is a reason for that. Quit looking at the world from the peep hole in your door and step outside for a change and maybe you will really see whats going on! Whose laughing at you LOL LOL LOL "

    justmyopinion wrote on Jun 18, 2008 5:34 AM:

    " FireBrat, let's just say that I well versed on the people and the events mentioned. What you need to remember here Firebrat is that the firefighters need to get off their high horses a bit and remember that the folks that show up on the ambulance have just as much training as they do and both of their patches say Paramedic. I speak from experience as I am retired from the fire service, I am still a paramedic and I've worked on an ambulance so I know the relationships very well. Whether it's Fire, Law Enforcement, EMS or what have you, people need to remember that your there for the patient not your ego's. Now with that said Firefighters will always have over inflated egos that's what keeps them alive but don't degrade your fellow public servants because then all you get is an environment that nobody wants to work around. Give the RMI guys and gals a break. I've had the opportunity to meet these folks and I know that they do a great job and are very proud of their position in the community. Maybe the FD and RMI need to look at a committee on patient care where 2 members from each department meet every month to discuss issues between the 2 entities. You have to work together or the city will have no recourse but to make wholesale changes and that will be very bad for all involved. "

    OJ wrote on Jun 17, 2008 9:33 PM:

    " Be nice to the fireman, because they will go on strike (I think they already started this at least 20 years ago..) and they will let the all city burn. We no need to worry about the EMS, the only hospital's ER will do the rest! It is time to go back to California and remember what the Glendale Fire Chief did! (He started at least 20 fires.) "

    Bill T. wrote on Jun 17, 2008 9:09 PM:

    " Medical personnel may disagree on appropriate medical procedure in any given case, but what really is troublesome is that the Fire Chief wanted the new employees who dared to point out potential malpractice on two separate occasions to be gotten rid of almost immediately. Seems to me such in house oversight is a good thing, not a bad one, but you simply can't tell some people anything they don't already know because they never make mistakes, even when their mistake is obvious. If there is disagreement in the right way to perform such a vital job, then those on the scene should work it out or report their differences. Arrogantly firing the whistleblower so the problem will "disappear" isn't the proper course. Bad call on this one, Mr. Fire Chief. "

    HIPPA heard of it wrote on Jun 17, 2008 8:07 PM:

    " I find it weird that the reporter mentions that it was the fathers friend of the Colorado medic who reported the incidents to the Police. How did he obtain enough info. on these calls to inform the police. Obviousley the medics were violating HIPPA laws to tell the "friend" patient information. Maybe our precious City Manager needs to investigate that portion of the story. Maybe someone needs to investigate any links between the city manager and these Colorado medics. They both seem hell bent on destroying this city. Maybe Colorado is in need of a new City Manager? I here Colorado is nice this time of the year. "

    toothpick wrote on Jun 17, 2008 7:34 PM:

    " Now that there comment bout burn't feet just didn't sit to well with this hillbilly. I thought this was about a wrongful death. Seems like sum of ya just want to bash da uders. haystack did I spell all that write? Only you would no whats write. Talk about low class. "

    needle wrote on Jun 17, 2008 7:27 PM:

    " Hey stack. It sounds like you won't sleep until you figure out this whole mess all on your lonesome... "

    Sissy one wrote on Jun 17, 2008 7:22 PM:

    " Haystacks, IF you had read my statement, I said, EVERYONE needs to be investigated. Do you have a personnal bond with the CO duo? Sure sounds like it! "

    Family Man wrote on Jun 17, 2008 5:01 PM:

    " It sounds like the days of public fire and paramedic are comeing to an end. Is there any thruth to the rumor of RiverMedical Fire stations takeing over Havasu in the near future? and is it going to save the community alot of money by hireing out? "

    Haystacks in Havasu wrote on Jun 17, 2008 3:22 PM:

    " Justmyopinion – VERY WELL SAID!
    Fire Brat – Oh My GOSH! You are married to someone involved in this whole thing??!! If your statements represent the family of fire fighters and medics here, and the leaders of this community, we are all in for a lot of trouble. Like I said - there are always a few bad in with all the good.
    Your first comments on here told everyone you haven’t read much on this forum. This forum, and the editor has allowed comments from all sides! You sound like the typical hypocrite who can dish it out, but when the shoe is on the other foot, you choose to go barefooted. Get some class and put some shoes on! Otherwise, you might have to call a ff/medic for burn't feet. "

    cover up wrote on Jun 17, 2008 2:16 PM:

    " Fire Brat, you are saying this happens all the time? if so, then we are in a world of trouble. "

    Fire Brat wrote on Jun 17, 2008 1:07 PM:

    " justmyopinion this is to you. How do you have any right to judge every fire fighter or EMS worker you don't know every one of them and just as it happens Im married to one of the many people involved in this whole thing and the people are not even getting all the facts you are getting the facts that are going to get the most attention not what is the truth. Most of my family is in the EMS field and this stuff happens everyday all over the world so suck it up. at least the fire fighter and medics come to your house and give dahm when your dying lets see how many other people would stop there lives just to save some ignorant person who doesn't give a dahm about them "

    Justmyopinion wrote on Jun 17, 2008 11:28 AM:

    " I am very well versed in the situation with Mesa, Glendale, Gilbert and Tempe fire vs. Havasu, Parker, Kingman and Qtz. Here is the biggest difference, the valley cities allow multiple transport agencies to compete for CON's in each area which means the city can contract with whom ever they want. LHC has 1 provider and they have an agreement with the state to provide service in that area. LHC fire has some of the biggest babies that work for that department and also some of the worst paramedics in general. Here's the nuts and bolts of alot of this story. If a paramedic shows up on a scene and thinks that the patient care being delivered is sub standard then it is their duty to speak of alternatives. Now I'm guessing that what got relayed back to BC Felish was about 600% of what really happened on the scene and about 2% true. If an ambulance paramedic shows up on a call first then it is that paramedics call and that paramedics patient. There needs to be a working relationship between the FD and the transport agency but the Fire Departments also need to realize that they don't walk on water they squirt it. Lake Havasu Fire needs to cut their guys down a notch or 2 as they all have very over inflated egos and that cuts into patient care. As for the handling of this by the transport agency. I would hope that a paramedic would bring to their supervisor a problem and I would terminate any suboridinate who taped a conversation with a supervisor to have as ammo later. The bottom line boys and girls is you all need to play nice in the sandbox and remember that you are public servants and not movie stars. Quit pissing and moaning because if you come to my house and do that I sue the whole damn county and the state for not pulling your certificates. "

    Fire Brat wrote on Jun 17, 2008 9:51 AM:

    " I find it funny how the editor of this paper only post people who disrespect our fire fighter and EMS providers...Maybe they need to get a back bone as well as the rest of this town "

    I already pay for the ambulance wrote on Jun 17, 2008 7:40 AM:

    " Hey, I don't want to pay for the ambulance twice with some type of ridiculous taxation idea you people have. I have health insurance. HELLO!

    I pay my property taxes and am just fine with the services provided (Other than 3-man crews). Oh, and I am a voter. "

    medic wrote on Jun 17, 2008 2:16 AM:

    " I too am a retired professional fire/medic, not from back East but out West and I fully agree with what the retired BC from NYFD wrote !!!! The key word is "professional"...something apparently grossly lacking within the ranks of LHFD... "

    Bailing Hay wrote on Jun 16, 2008 11:13 PM:

    " TO azfiremedic: Every profession has "wanna be's". And a lot of times it's not the choice of the "wanna be". After all, you were a "wanna be" at one time weren't you? That's what got you where you're at. Wanting to be in a position of helping people in emergencies, I hope. And, the last time I looked, it wasn't a sin to be a 'wanna be". But negligence is. And lying to save yourself at the expense of other's jobs and lives is up there also, pretty high on the list of wrongdoings, especially in cases like this. You imply that people who work for private ambulance companies are somehow different, less superior, for being in the same profession you are. That they are a "generic paramedic". Everyone in all the medical/EMT fields are supposed to work together, as a team, for the welfare of those in need of their services. Every department / service has it's functions, and is needed. Your statement that RMI should be gotten rid of is not up to you. It should be up to the citizens here, and on who the majority wants servicing our emergency needs. What your are proposing is a “monopoly”, on which there are plenty of those here already. By the way, could you inform us civilians what "CON" means? I have a feeling you mean iniative. And in this case, please don't confuse iniative with arrogance, bullying and egotism. Also, regarding your insinuation about marriage and RMI co workers, and your other comments – well, we all know the likes of people like you just by that statement alone.

    Why can’t people just stick to the issues? I agree wholeheartedly with Haystacks in Havasu, with Everything he wrote! Boy, a can of worms has sure been opened here! "

    Haystacks in Havasu wrote on Jun 16, 2008 10:55 PM:

    " My, my, Sissy one! Looks like my comments hit home with you. I apologize if you feel I was attacking you. I wonder how the two medics from Colorado feel, when they came here so earnestly to serve our community in a professional and honorable way - look what happened to them. Your feelings are hurt over a few honest and well deserved comments, I can only guess how you’d react if you went through just a few of all the injustices they have experienced here. You seem to condone and overlook those actions though.
    Do you really think, if they were the ones doing something wrong, they would have gone to the trouble of recording conversations and such, with the possibility they would be discovered instead? Who knows what injustices and wrongs were done to them in the past, and felt that the next time they’d take more precautions, be more ready. It appears to me that you have a suspicious mind in thinking they were out to no good to begin with. I have no doubts about their sincerity, after all I’ve read and researched. I don’t know or have ever heard of too many people who are out to get the firemen of a community. Have you? Come on now. I have the utmost of respect for all the men and women in this country who risk their lives so that others can be safe. As in every profession though, there are at least a few, with the wrong motives.
    But the issues here - are how those wrongs were then handled. It’s usually the injustice done about a wrong that hurts all in involved, more than the actual wrong itself. I don’t know what I wrote in my previous comments that would convey that I thought myself “pure and clean” and have never done anything wrong. For one, I am not the issue here. I seriously doubt my comments here “make anything so” as you say. And, according to you, only one class of people read and respond to this forum. If so, only one of our (either yours or mine) comments wouldn’t be here. You talk of fingers being pointed and people being condemned – reread your own comments. It was because of those and others like yours, I decided to comment also. But then you found that insulting. I think the word for that is hypocritical.
    ParamedicFirefighter – I agree with you on quite a lot of what you wrote. I feel bad too for those of you who now have to endure consequences and judging because of a few not quite so responsible. It’s sad. But stop and think what those two medics for RMI have had and will continue to have to endure. There are a lot of frivolous and needless law suits every day in our court systems, but just as many good and needed ones too. And the precedence of those, on a daily basis, are the ones that are establishing our laws in this country.
    I’m not sure what the solution in this whole mess would be. I do know though, it needs to be taken care of in the right and ethical way to ensure this doesn’t happen again, and with a lot of preventative measures. But most important - so that the community can regain the trust and confidence and give you the respect that you good and decent FF/medics so deserve. A lot of other deep rooted issues seems to have surfaced here though, also, in all this. I hope the right people are reading, what I think the majority of us have to say here, and act accordingly. "

    I live in a city of idiots wrote on Jun 16, 2008 10:23 PM:

    " For those of you have some big-brained solutions posted here - god, help us....

    Why don't we just put big garden hoses and AEDs and ACLS boxes in our homes and see if the GOMERS and those who don't have rides to the hospital will stop calling 911! Tell the tourists that the city is on strike-we closed down EMS. We don't want them wrecking their $300K boats in our lake cuz we don't have a fire boat to save their drunk, gorked behind. That will help the ailing budget! Who needs RMI and a fire dept? Just kick 'em out of town, why don't we?! And while I am talking about it, since there won't be anyone to take pts to the hospital, just shut that place down, too. And while we're at it, send the helicopter and the fixed wing away, too! And who needs the doctors?! According to Mr. Colorado Medic, they are all a bunch of "quacks" anyway. And just to save a little more money, why don't we let the cops stay home for a few months and see what happens....

    Wow, no fire dept -- No one has to pay any taxes into the general fund to support the fire dept! We don't have to pay state taxes to support AHCCCS to support those darn ambulance rides! Wow! No more lawyers, no audits, no more truck or ambulance maintenance, no gasoline bills, no one to have to read all those pesky charts. No more city managers!! No more investigators. Whoo hoooo!

    No more need to worry about ISO ratings. Who needs home owner's insurance? No, we don't need the fire dept! Just let the damn thing burn down! We have such a great economy that everyone should be able to afford to rebuild in no time.

    And by golly, we can finally all be married to whomever we choose (can I REEEEEELLLLY marry someone from the ambulance or fire dept...oh my, the public might think I am part of a big conspiracy!!).

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    God almighty, help us all. Are you people for real with some of your posts? "

    cut the b...s... wrote on Jun 16, 2008 9:00 PM:

    " to paramedicfirefighter, I think the citymanager is right and we need to replace all the fireman, ASAP "

    Boater dude wrote on Jun 16, 2008 8:48 PM:

    " Rural metro? Vonunteers? be carefull what you ask for, it might just come true.. "

    clearly wrote on Jun 16, 2008 4:54 PM:

    " This is clearly not a whistleblower case. "

    a thought wrote on Jun 16, 2008 4:47 PM:

    " might not be such a bad idea to contract out ems and fire. even with membership it would still cost less. "

    CalHav wrote on Jun 16, 2008 12:53 PM:

    " " hey azfiremedic,
    here a thought for you. how about having rmi or rural metro taking over lhc fire. they could do just as good and save the city a whole lot of money. "
    You absolutely right it would save the City ALOT OF MONEY. Just don't be the one who is need of them when the time comes however. Unless your a member.

    Example Fire Membership Rate

    1900 sq. ft. home + two car garage = 2400 sq. ft.

    The annual fire membership rate for this home is $252.00 per year.
    In the first year, there is a one-time $30.00 registration fee,
    for a total of $282.00.on-members are billed for service at the rate of $1,000 per hour, per apparatus, for all fire calls. Non-member fees for a typical house fire can cost as much as 10 years worth of membership costs. Homeowner’s insurance usually pays only a fraction of the bill, leaving the property owner responsible for the difference.

    https://www.ruralmetrotn.com/htm/establish_fire_service_frameset.htm

    Plus you can't take it off your income tax like you can property Taxes. I know my tax bill is only twice what the Rural Metro bill would be. I doubt it's all going to Fire this does not count EMS So you can just add that to the sewer fee we pay. "

    Sissy one wrote on Jun 16, 2008 5:20 AM:

    " haystackinhavasu, In my own defense and I do feel that you are attacking me, which is a "personal attack" on this site; I just got a funny feeling in my gut when I read about the taperecorder. I don't know of anyone going around using a tape recorder, unless they are out to "get someone". Seems like they have done this before. Maybe that is their mission, to go around and find errors in firestations. If there is a cover up, they prove that the paremedics gave the wrong drug AND it killed someone,yes, they need to be dealt with. Just as anyone who does wrong, needs to be. Which brings up YOU. Are you so pure and clean that you have never done anthing wrong? . You sit there and judge the rest of us and whatver YOU say, makes it so. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and there is only ONE judge. YOU also read and respond to this forum, so I guess that puts you in the same class as the rest of us. So get off your high horse! I am all for wrongs being righted, and I feel awful for the familys that lost loved ones. I do however, think that EVERY aspect of this whole situation needs to be investigated, before fingers are pointed and people are condemmed. "

    a thought wrote on Jun 15, 2008 9:46 PM:

    " hey azfiremedic,
    here a thought for you. how about having rmi or rural metro taking over lhc fire. they could do just as good and save the city a whole lot of money. "

    cover up wrote on Jun 15, 2008 8:47 PM:

    " i have to agree with Haystacks in Havasu. the rmi medics have the right and the obligation to blow the whistle on what they saw. they also have protection and the right to sue under whistle blower laws if in fact they were vaporized as reported. "

    we c u wrote on Jun 15, 2008 8:01 PM:

    " Keep posting Richard to make yourself look in the right, but we all know that until you investigate the city departments that landed us in the middle of a boycott where even people who own 2nd homes here prefer mexico (such as cal/hav) then your bogus investigations will not hold wieght. "

    ParamedicFirefighter wrote on Jun 15, 2008 7:04 PM:

    " A point I would like to share is that paramedics and firefighters are here to provide quality emergency service and care to our communities. I don't know any of these people involved and I feel bad that these issues had to come to this outrage "mud slinging". Accidents happen and we need to own up to our mistakes. One thing for the readers to realize is that paramedics are people and people can make mistakes. The LHC firefighters are a professional organization that many arizona Firefighters would love to be a part of. From the articles I have read,it seems people are pointing the finger in the wrong direction. The city manager needs to be replaced no IFS,ANDS or BUTS.He was spineless to ever treat fellow city officials the way he has.This issue was investigated and that should have been the end of the issue. He now has created an unsecure feeling with the citizens in his community thinking the LHC Fire Department is all about wanting the citizens tax money and providing below satisfactory service.LAKE HAVASU--- Get him out of city government and regain the pride in your firefighters they are here for you. "

    Investigator wrote on Jun 15, 2008 2:54 PM:

    " Come one azfiredemics, River Medical not only cheaper, they are killing less people too. Even the local fireman call River Medical for their own family! "

    Yeahyeahyeah wrote on Jun 15, 2008 2:52 PM:

    " Yeahyeahyeah, we need to increase the nice firemans salary to at least 1 Million, make sure they ar at least 11 of them on the truck, so they can play soccer, the mayor personally has to drive the firetruck and the union representative has to be on the truck... What else do you want nice Lake Havasu fireman? "

    HaystacksinHavasu wrote on Jun 15, 2008 1:54 PM:

    " Through reading the stories, reports, and comments on this whole entire incident, I don't believe that the ones who should be taking the blame, accepting responsibility and owning up to their actions - are. I do believe there is a lot of covering up going on here, and severe small town dirty politics involved. The comments I've read here are really showing who's ignorant and small minded and who's not. I don't believe that these two medics relocated here with the sole purpose in mind of creating all this discord. The times when I have wanted to tape someone has always and ONLY been when I know something wrong is going on, and to be able to prove that. If they felt secure in this community, felt that nothing underhanded and conniving was happening, and no dirty politics existed, I daresay that they would have gone to all the trouble of equipping themselves with recording equipment. It took two outsiders, with a humble dream of the future, as so many of us who have come here to Havasu had, to have the nerve to speak up about one needle in the haystack here in Havasu. My experience in this town has been that if you speak out against wrong, you're the “bad guy”. You don't dare rock the boat, no matter how wrong something is. And from what I've seen, Lake Havasu needs a lot of improvement, especially in the important field of medicine, and also - starting at the beginning - with the training. I've have heard and experienced not to much positive or good about this areas at all, in the time I've been here. I'll leave my experiences go to another time and day. It seems it has come down to the grade school level of thinking here - the "New Guys" versus the established "Kingpins". Most of the comments in defense from people that are from here, or who have lived here for awhile seem to relay the message "there is no room for improvement here in Havasu with ANYTHING, and don't move here with that in mind either!" "You either move here and keep your mouth shut, or else". These are usually people doing wrong themselves and don't want any boat but their own yacht rocking. To the firemen and those in defense of them - I'm ashamed and regret that I shared that same humble dream too. Look what this has all evolved into. The good ole boy "Bubba" type egos has really surfaced in all this, and literally makes me sick. Since when is there never a need for improvement? Since when is "blowing the whistle" on something so wrong as people dying - wrong? I commend the two paramedics who spoke up and out about the wrong being done. I know that you knew it would be a tough road here on out when you were about to do so but did anyway. Havasu, and also the people who "vaporized" you, owe you an immense apology. I also commend the "Fireman' for his class and integrity, "Nicole" who spoke with such eloquence, and "Laughing at You" and all the others who are seeing what is actually going on here. They are the ones with open eyes, open minds and open hearts. The ones I see here that are the most insulting, narrow minded, and egotistical are the ones in defense and covering up what are really the issues here in Havasu. Grade school name for them, since that is the mentality level from which they are coming from is "Bullies". The attorney who pointed out what one “smart and educated individual said "Stick a fork in me - I'm done" has probably been watching too much Rachel Ray. An attorney said this! His comments sounded like something from the OJ court trials and "If it doesn't fit, we must acquit" mentality. And to "You Wish You were FDNY sounds like you have a jealousy problem going on. To "How should we whipe your azz', "Sissy one" and the rest of your kind - all I can say is "Get some class". You are the ones lacking ethics, good standards and morals, integrity and honor. I believe and uphold the belief that this country needs more small town government, but not this kind. This is nothing but dirty small town politics trying to be like the big guys in D.C.. To “azfiremedic” and “Wow really”, leave this to Havasu. Don’t discredit the rest of this beautiful state with your altered, puffed up egos. I’m sure if they had their say in this, they’d tell you not to dare come to their department and apply for a job! The only ones who made out in this whole mess are the communities who now have the two brave medics who spoke out, serving them now. Enough said. "

    azfiremedic wrote on Jun 15, 2008 10:59 AM:

    " Sounds like Colorado Medics should go back to Colrado and get married like all River Medical co workers do.A majority of private ambulance people are wanna be Fire/Medics.LHC City Fire should take the CON and get rid of RMI. "

    worried wrote on Jun 15, 2008 10:05 AM:

    " City employees that have conversations to "get rid of" people need to be investigated and reprimanded. What is the meaning of "get rid of?" When family members involved in this are warned by citizens to "watch their backs." Maybe I need to go to the police chief about this as I am truly worried for safety concerns as a family member. What will be next? "

    ocver up wrote on Jun 15, 2008 9:30 AM:

    " Cal Hav, you asked what cover up? it seems a few reports were falsified, a medic would not attend a pharmacology refresher class until threatened with suspension. a very broken ems response system. just to name a few. "

    Wow really wrote on Jun 15, 2008 6:41 AM:

    " "FYI wrote on Jun 12, 2008 11:50 PM:"

    " This happens to EMTs and paramedics all over the state. What is the big deal? This type of behavior by Gould and Carter would never be tolerated by a Phx Fire or Glendale Fire. They would have been gone the next day!!!

    Wow really, thanks for that info.

    All errors and abuse can be reported to the Dept of Health. "

    whoistoblame wrote on Jun 14, 2008 8:49 PM:

    " I think everything has to come out in the open before any opinions are formed. EVERYONE should be investigated. Seems there is alot of he said, she said on both sides. People are getting raked over the coles, that shouldn't be getting burned. "

    Bonhomme Richard wrote on Jun 14, 2008 2:48 PM:

    " Oh don't for get we need a raise? "

    c u wrote on Jun 14, 2008 2:36 PM:

    " from reading the postings it occurs to me we are paying the city manager to manage not sit on this thread and post.
    Rk, when you investigate the real problems of havasu in the city departments that have landed us in a boycott then you will get some support.
    And RK, I KNOW you read this site and the style of writing IS yours. "

    more to the story wrote on Jun 14, 2008 9:20 AM:

    " Do you people not get it. There was never any cover up. The two cases in question were handled by the paramedics base hospital back in Oct. The one paramedic admitted to drawing up the wrong medicine. He did not give it, the nurse in the ER did. He told her what he had drawn up. He admitted his mistake. In the other case it was determined that the was no error. The problem with the two colorado medics with the FD was not isolated to these two cases. The problems arose due to there arrogance and unprofessioanal attitudes towards the fire department. You probably shouldnt relocate to a new area and start bad mouthing one of the agencies you will be working with. The fire department in 99% of the EMS runs in Havasu shows up first. The fire department paramedic runs the call because he was there first. The two paramedics were not used to this type of system and didnt like being told what to do. They didnt like not being the ones in charge. These two calls were only the tip of the iceberg with these two. I am willing to bet if you ask the fire department paramedics they would have some accusations of their own. As for the sister you might want to tell your brother to get to know people before he starts badmouthing them. In a small town and word travels fast!! "

    I have a question wrote on Jun 14, 2008 8:23 AM:

    " What ever happened to the letter that was sent to the Mayor and the City Council about the "hit" that someone overheard at Starbuck's? ThHe one by Mr. Kaffenberger, Mr. Wilson, and the biker? The plot?

    As a concerned citizen, I want to make sure that Mr. Mueller, Mr. Felish, and Mr. Valentine are safe. Just wondering.

    City Council-any comment?

    I am sure the content of the letter will soon be public. "

    as one attorney pointed out wrote on Jun 14, 2008 8:01 AM:

    " As one VERY smart and educated individual said:

    "These people have no class. They have nothing to more to lose. They have no integrity. They will continue this with other employers and in other cities."

    I say: "Don't you know who's laughing at YOU?" Pretty much everyone.

    Stick a fork in me, I am done. "

    Cal Hav wrote on Jun 14, 2008 6:57 AM:

    " WHAT COVER UP. The article states that the Paramedic Liason at the Hospital was made aware of the mix up. That a remediation class was set up. Only problem is that the Medic has not followed through. Med screw ups are more common than people think. A screw up maybe, cover up I don;t see Unless the CM wants every complaint to be published in the paper. The Chief job is to address a problem when it happend. Sound like he did exactly that through the PROPER CHANNELS. Maybe the CM is upset that DHS and not he is really in charge on this one. "

    aRN wrote on Jun 14, 2008 6:02 AM:

    " The medication error made between Cardiazem and Versed is a serious error. I don't understand the bashing of the private medics. They did the right and honorable thing by advising the medic that they had or were going to make a medication error. It sounds like the private medics were probably more experienced then the FF medics but egos got in the way. I have seen this happen numerous times. It is not up to the hospital or staff to discipline the FF, it is up to the fire dept. and the EMS agency controlling the county. In my years experience, I often saw the PLN advise the fire dept and EMS agency of errors made by certain medics. It appeared the private sector received more aggressive discipline and re-training then the fire dept. medics. I don't know if it's the union mentality or what but I witnessed it quite often. Needless to say, two people died here and if errors in treatment were made, which affected the outcome, then there needs to be accountability. People need to get over the facede of the "all American hero" and hold any individual accountable, whether it is a FF, police officer or construction worker. Anybody is capable of making a mistake but it's how you accept responsbility and rectify the problem that mitigates it. "

    cover up wrote on Jun 13, 2008 9:47 PM:

    " very interesting the fd paramedic give the wrong med, then the report is falsified. the rmi paramedics who report this are then transferred at the request of the fd battalion chief. almost sounds like a cover up. "

    Right On Fireman wrote on Jun 13, 2008 8:12 PM:

    " Fireman thank you for giving us a view from a true professional. Your words should remind those writing here and/or defending the fire personnel involved that accountability is a must. I too have read the investigation and I was shocked and embarassed by the attitude of the firemen. This is not about Kaffenberger or the ambulance medics. This is about members of our fire dept who made mistakes and intentionally, I repeat, intentionally attempted to cover them up. This should be unacceptable in LHC just as it should be in NY or LA or anywhere else in the USA. As a recepient of our tax dollars shouldn't the FD from top to bottom be accountable for the work they perform? And shouldn't we expect ethics and integrity from the same? "

    YouWishUwereFDNY wrote on Jun 13, 2008 7:02 PM:

    " Fireman: If you are in fact a retired FDNY Battalion Chief I wouldn't think you would be so naive to make statements based off of a report made by an investigator. I happen to know a lot of retired members of FDNY and all of them are of the opinion that we need to wait to see the findings of the entire, complete report (this includes the Attorney General's and DHS's findings). We also have not heard anything about the investigation from the hospital that these paramedic's work for or the Kingman Police Department's investigation findings.
    Sir, please do not bring any more discredit to FDNY, that organization would not appreciate your mentality representing their organization.
    Let's all step back and let the complete investigation take it's course. Then we will see where the wrong doings took place. "

    how sould we whipe your azz wrote on Jun 13, 2008 6:12 PM:

    " hey Fireman, give me a break "

    lee wrote on Jun 13, 2008 4:32 PM:

    " Pointing out errors in treatment is absolutely required. Unions have never liked it though. The good ol boys in the firehouse can't stand top have their competence challenged. The citizens of LHC had better pay attention to the quality of their medical service. "

    laughin at you wrote on Jun 13, 2008 4:05 PM:

    " I was just thinking. I know somr people are very worried about that process. LOL But none the less, It is interesting that Carter and Gould took a recorder to their meeting. If you were being harrassed and the fire department wanted you vaporized, like them and didn't take one, does that sound smart? Seems smart to me to be able to prove what was said! And I agree that there was no fued. Just a great big cover up. After all when your wrong your wrong. An error does not make you right. Another thing,If I was a paramedic and wanted to keep all my reports complete and correct, seems like a recorder is a very SMART way to do that. There is no question that way is there? Seems to me Mutt and Jeff are pretty smart paramedics. LOL "

    do not call wrote on Jun 13, 2008 3:29 PM:

    " now let me see if i have this correct. the fire dept. had 2 river medical paramedics removed because they did their job and reported serious mistakes committed by members of the fire dept. the fire chief and battalion chief then violated the city code of ethics. if i ever become sick or injured i know who i am not calling! "

    Not buying it wrote on Jun 13, 2008 3:14 PM:

    " He who lives in a glass house should not throw stones. I would think that when conducting an investigation the credibility of the accuser would be investigated also. It is beginning to sound as though the credibility of the accusers may be in question as well. I am beginning to believe that the entire story has yet to be told. I to have read the "report" and find it interesting that the doctor who is in charge of all these paramedics was not interviewed. Why is that? Could it be that maybe the FD paramedics would have been cleared of these allegations. Why was the conlusion of the hospitals report/investigation not published. Why was the Department of Health Services not used to conduct this investigation? They are the governing body of EMS in the state. The Department of Health Services has qualified medical experts who look into these kinds of cases all the time. I find it very unlikley that three independant agencies all would conspire a grand plot against two individuals. I find it odd that the Kingman PD, Mohave County Attourney and the paramedics base hospital found no wrong doing. I find it odd that the city manager who is in an ongoing politcal dispute with the fire fighters assosiation is able to produce this scathing report. A report from what sounds like a poor and incomplete investigation by a person who was probably not qualified to conduct a medical investigation in the first place. I for one am not buying it! "

    FIREMAN wrote on Jun 13, 2008 2:56 PM:

    " Once again, I am a retired FNDY Battalion Chief. I have been reading through the comments posted here and am curious to know if many of the supporters of the LHCF and EMS personnel have taken the time to review the report and consider the evidence. To know what you are speaking about and in order to be “politically correct” you must first be educated in the subject at hand. I keep hearing that these two individuals from Colorado had no business working here, however only because they sparked an investigation, not because they were unqualified. In retrospect, they were the one's who caught the errors in patient care. How does that make either of them bad medics, I ask? Because the other kiddos didn't like how high they built their candcastle in the sandbox in comparison to the latter? From what I have read, they are paramedics, not EMT’s, which means their qualifications are substantial and clearly, both of their certifications were up-to-date. They have obviously worked in the field in Colorado and are familiar with the guidelines and ethics that they must adhere to. I see nothing wrong with what they did, it was an ethical duty for them to take action when their superiors failed them. I also feel that they did what was necessary to protect they're hard-earned careers, their livelihood, their conscious, and the welfare of future patients. Good Job! Seems to me that LHCF and medics should be paying attention to these two paramedics and strive to be more like them. "

    Nicole ... sister to Paramedic Nathan Carter wrote on Jun 13, 2008 2:18 PM:

    " I have decided not to post under an alias, a catchy phrase or an inflammatory response to this unfortunate chain of events. In other words, I simply wish to be an adult about a situation that is becoming increasingly hostile. I believe in our justice system and that many agencies blur lines, which sadly results in varying degrees of mild corruption. In the meantime, my brother endures retaliation (daily) by individuals intimately involved with this investigation. People need to act with grace and maturity in life (on or off duty). Can we not act with solidarity?

    I will not point my fingers at the fire department, the hospital, the ambulance service or my own family. This would be pointless and childish, serving no purpose but to make others retaliate further. The truth will hopefully bring clarity to this fueled situation. Misconduct (if any is proven) should be followed by disciplinary action and I do not mean the loss of income/livelihood.

    Nathan received both his education and working experience at one of the region’s best paramedic schools. He takes pride in both his choice of profession and the quality of care his patients receive while under his supervision. I do not believe my brother would ever target a group to further his career, make a name for himself or try to make a quick “buck.” What I do know is that he is an ethical paramedic, a moral paramedic and one of the very best at his job. I am proud of his accomplishments and feel angered by the individuals who would try to take this away from him.

    I would never try to take away the “hero” status from the firemen, paramedics and policemen in Lake Havasu. Hero’s are born from the ashes of their actions and deeds. In my eyes, my brother is such a hero, speaking out against actions that go against established regulations and procedures.

    Contrary to other’s opinions, he moved to Lake Havasu seeking a quiet, small town life. Have not all of us wanted a similar dream? I know I have. He left a lucrative career (unblemished) and family, in order to follow the path leading him to the quiet town of Lake Havasu. I will tell you what this dream has given him and cost him. He has been harassed, retaliated against, insulted, forced out of one station to the next because of concerns, threatened and unwelcomed.

    I believe my dreams of living in a small town have evaporated because of this incidence. I will keep my traffic ailments, my chaotic life style and the hustle/bustle of big city Denver. I will not post further because I have said what I came to say.

    Sincerely,

    Proud Sister of a man who stood up for what he felt was right. "

    Urawackjob wrote on Jun 13, 2008 2:12 PM:

    " Laughin at you...even the supporters of LHCF are becoming offended by the rude comments that you are posting with regards to this story and the people involved. Our fire and rescue personnel are decent and polite guys. That which you are not. Please have some self-respect, some form of class and stick to the facts that are being disputed here. The LHC Fire Department and EMS deserve to be supported by people that do not present themselves to be any higher than the average Jerry Springer trailor park guest. "

    Who covered what up wrote on Jun 13, 2008 1:57 PM:

    " Everything got reported to DR. G, According to Rudolf. GET THE POINT--what are you going on about? "

    IF only wrote on Jun 13, 2008 1:55 PM:

    " Are we done yet? I am so sick of hearing about this. MOVE ON, children.

    Do we have anything else to do in life? "

    laughin at you wrote on Jun 13, 2008 1:44 PM:

    " Fireman that was very well said. And get the point seems to have it. When the hillbilly fits LOLOLOL. I came from a family of fireman and paramedics and police officers. My husband was a police officer. And I have never heard of any, not one adult, let alone professional firefighters, paramedics, or police officers acting so childish. This is not TV! This is a personal, proud fellowship of men and women, who by the way as the fireman said have a hirer standard than most. So you gave it the name not me. Called Hill&Billy not mutt and Jeff! lOLOLOL "

    GET THE POINT wrote on Jun 13, 2008 12:37 PM:

    " Remember that these firefighter/paramedics admitted...ON TAPE... to the investigator... under their own free will... that they made mistakes. It is a proven fact, once again by their OWN admission, that they messed up. It is very concerning to me that the fire department administration and River Medical supervisors helped cover this up. The point of the article is to point out the administrative deficiencies. NO ONE has the right to move an employee because someone else just doesn't like them. Seems to me Felish was threatened. Partain drew up the wrong medication... Tobin falsified documents. Who's wrong? Not the Colorado Medics. This has obviously gone on too long and it took two outsiders to point things out. I don't think Carter and Gould should take the heat for obvious mistakes made by the fire department. Ones they ADMITTED TO! "

    Fireman wrote on Jun 13, 2008 12:33 PM:

    " I recently retired and relocated to LHC after 21 years with FDNY. As a former Battalion Chief, I am very familiar with the duties and responsibilities of the job. I have been following this story and invested in a copy of the report out of curiosity. There seems to be a lot of criticism here of the two paramedics from Colorado, which I find rather disturbing. Perhaps on the other side of the country we do things a little different. We as brothers and sisters hold each other accountable for careless mistakes, we do not condone the lack of regard for procedure, and we do not tolerate incompetent counterparts in the field. In the real world, the actions of the Colorado Medics are considered to be quite professional and commendable. By all accounts, there were tangible, reckless medical errors made by responders, who did not possess mandatory current certifications. That is negligence and out-right pure laziness from the bottom right up the chain of command. It is a fact that Mr. Rick Felish is either incompetent in performing the duties set forth, or he is sadly uneducated in what those duties actually entail. It is unacceptable to abuse the authority to which you have been entrusted. I find it frustrating when a few rejects act as they have acted, without honor, credibility, and/or accountability. You few have taken away from the rest of us men who do the job the right way. You have damaged that which is our true purpose, our duty to be there for those in need, the innocent lives, the scared, the injured, the sick, the helpless, and the weak. Our country, states, and cities should know us as, admirable men who act to the best of our abilities. We are human beings, but when we make a mistake, we must hold each other and ourselves to a higher standard of accountability. We have a responsibility and a clearly defined duty to follow the rules, go by policy and procedure, every time, all of the time. You gentlemen are fortunate that you do not work for FDNY or with any of the courageous brothers back home. I guarantee it would not be the Colorado medics being drug through the soot and ashes there. "

    remember wrote on Jun 13, 2008 11:50 AM:

    " remember this all came about because 2 people died. if the actions or lack of caused this remains to be seen. a complete investigation is needed so this will never happen again. please don't forget the 2 people who died as a result of this. "

    Blue wrote on Jun 13, 2008 11:44 AM:

    " "Laughing at you" grow up. Why do you seem to get your pleasure in other people's misery? How old are you? Are you so convinced that none of our paramedics have anything better to do than sit here and blog? And no, I am not a firefighter, paramedic, cop, or anything else. I am a single mother who just wants to know the FACTS. Wow. I hope you don't need any of these guys anytime soon. I hope this is not all you have to do with your life. I find that very sad. "

    Sissy one wrote on Jun 13, 2008 11:29 AM:

    " I don't know; Carter and Gould went into a meeting with a tape recorder. It sounds fishy to me, like they go around and do this alot, looking for a way to stir the pot! Looking for anything to bring up a lawsuit. It sent a red flag up for me. I don't trust them. Not related to or know any of the firemen or paramedics!! "

    come on already wrote on Jun 13, 2008 11:02 AM:

    " laughin at you I am beginning to wonder about the paranoid ranting coming from your threads. First what does right to work state have have to do with two people obviously working together to try to fraud a small town. Second what is going to come around? This sword you speak of seems to have been swung at the firemen/paramedics? I have lived in this town for 12 years and this is the first time I have ever heard anything bad about the fire dept. I think we should all be apologizing to these men and women for not seeing through these lies to begin with. "

    laughin at you wrote on Jun 13, 2008 9:20 AM:

    " I am still laughing LOL what a hoot! But unfortunatly I have to go work. All you fireman and paramedics with nothing better to do but waste tax payers money keep on with the comments. I will come back at break time and check out what you have to say. LOL Gosh my sides hurt. Come on allready how true and funny that was. LOL Hillbillies LOLOLOLOL "

    It is unbelievable wrote on Jun 13, 2008 8:57 AM:

    " It is unbelievable what facts and credible information this paper won't put in their articles or allow for posting on the blogs.

    Sounds like censorship or collusion with the criminals in this matter. "

    trust the city manager read the full court doc wrote on Jun 13, 2008 8:28 AM:

    " ..An inspector discovered a copy of Kruetzberg's letter, dated August 27, 1987, indicating that the addendum contained a mistake. Kaffenberger then instructed the police chief to brief selected council members about the discrepancy. The secret briefings took place on September 10 and 11, 1987. In addition, on the evening of September 10, 1987, Kaffenberger, the police chief and other individuals searched Avilla's office without a search warrant. Kaffenberger insisted that they were searching for the deed of trust. Nonetheless, they removed cassettes from Avilla's brief case, which were unrelated to the deed of trust.1 Kaffenberger told an individual to copy the tapes. Others items were also seized.

    http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/978/978.F2d.715.91-16368.html "

    Rotten wrote on Jun 13, 2008 8:21 AM:

    " Sounds like the city manager jumped the gun on this. The accusers have serious credibilty problems. What does this tell us about the motivations of the city manager? He is willing to investigate the rumor of allegations about the fire department but ignores the court and police conduct?

    Sounds like something is rotten in Denmark. "

    laughin at you wrote on Jun 13, 2008 8:21 AM:

    " To all of you below "Mr. Rudolf is this all you have", to all you fire fighters who wrote to defend yourselves(because it is obvious who you are) remember God said" live by the sword die by the sword". I believe it is also said"What goes around comes around". And this just confirms the state of medical, fire and paramedic's failure to even meet the below standard of care in AZ. If this type of attitude by fire fighters, medical personel, and paramedics is allowed to happen in AZ (right to work state) it is deplorable. Like a bunch of little kids who don't want to play with the new kids on the block because they just wont stroke the Good Old Boys ego's! Jealousy is an evil thing. Keep trying to pass the buck boys! We all know who you are! LOL "

    come on already wrote on Jun 13, 2008 8:09 AM:

    " It seems to me that everyone BUT the two people from colorado seem to say everything was done RIGHT. Does this seem strange to anyone else.I get really sick of people coming to our town and trying to make us look like the small town hillbillies that dont know anything.Yes mistakes can happen but all of a sudden two people show up and start throwing accusations and threatening lawsuits, it sounds to me like someone needs some extra INCOME.I mean how often do YOU take a tape recorder into your boss' office when caleed in for a meeting? "

    Mr. Rudolf-is this all you have wrote on Jun 13, 2008 7:53 AM:

    " Mr. Rudolf, is this all you have? This was supposed to be the big bombshell? Disappointment. Won't be buying a paper today. "

    Colorado wrote on Jun 13, 2008 7:48 AM:

    " Wow, how many "Legal Actions" were those two involved in with their previous companies. "

    Hello wrote on Jun 13, 2008 7:34 AM:

    " Let's see what the personnel records say. We cannot believe everything we read here. I would venture to guess that the multiple transfers for these paramedics were for other reasons.....

    Seen it before--if you can't play well with others, employers try to accommodate. Employees have way too many rights, and it hurts all the other employees/coworkers. I have seen this done in hospitals and other EMS agencies. It is not news. It is nothing that anyone who has ever worked in EMS has NOT seen!

    Do ya think the supervisors will just move people haphazardly because SOMEONE is asking them to be moved?

    According to Rudolf, only Carter and Gould apparently have a brain in this whole fiasco. PULEEEZ. "

    what do they say wrote on Jun 13, 2008 7:22 AM:

    " What do they say about crap rolling uphill?

    But hey, it comes right back down...

    Mueller and Felish and Valentine -- they're big boys. They'll get over this, too! "

    CalHav wrote on Jun 13, 2008 6:55 AM:

    " Sounds like this Carter and Gould are trouble seekers. And boy what a conspiracy theory. Sounds like the Chief handled everything appropriately. He reeled in the BC on his memo, advised the proper EMS personnel of the Medication error and let the system work as it should. Keeping the problem in house yet addressing it appropriately. No wonder the DA didn't follow up. So what was done wrong other than a mistake. like the article said. On Patient 2 they actually SAVED her life. Who know what was given or transpired after she was handed over to the hospital. Maybe the CM can start investigating them too. Seem like micromanagement to me. "

    Confused wrote on Jun 13, 2008 6:48 AM:

    " The Kingman police found nothing criminal, the Mohave County attorney found nothing criminal, the hospital medical director found nothing criminal, the husband of the dead woman said he can't confirm the allegations, one of the people making the allegation is fired for making a false sexual harrassment claim...but the city manager investigates AFTER all this information? And no one has a problem with this? "

    we can see through this wrote on Jun 13, 2008 12:26 AM:

    " Hey people, there is no feud. Mr. Rudolf is sensationalizing again. Just like he fixed the article to make it more favorable for the "accusers."

    The only feud is going to be as everyone who has a case collects...like said before, hope you got yourself a real good lawyer to fight the big dogs. "

    The Valley wrote on Jun 13, 2008 12:20 AM:

    " Peoria, Mesa, and Glendale fire "Vaporize" Southwest paramedics all the time. I have seen it happen. SO what? If you can't play well with others, get out of the ballpark. Is that what happened in Denver??? Why would any fire dept or employer tolerate such behavior on a scene in front of patients and families? Incredible. "

    The timeline wrote on Jun 13, 2008 12:18 AM:

    " The paramedics couldnt' get along anywhere they went. It was not just Havasu Fire/LHC! "

    FYI wrote on Jun 12, 2008 11:50 PM:

    " This happens to EMTs and paramedics all over the state. What is the big deal? This type of behavior by Gould and Carter would never be tolerated by a Phx Fire or Glendale Fire. They would have been gone the next day!!!

    Good luck getting a job in Arizona. The EMS community in this state is way too small. "

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