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tomgarven wrote on Apr 8, 2010 9:48 AM:

" desert iguana wrote [in part] tomgarven has to stop being mediator here and get out of the way.

Tom G. responds:

Definition of mediator: *a negotiator who acts as a link between parties". I must have missed the part about negotiating between parties.

I did however respond to one individual who was concerned about the education of her son.

I also responded to an article published in Forbes that presented inaccurate facts about our community.

And then there was the comment about the $9/mo. as difficult for some people.

Of course there was the comment about my own personal situation indicating that I could afford the money this year but possibly not next year.

Is this what you mean 'desert iguana'?
What specifically do you object too?

Since this article is no longer on the mail board you might want to send me a personal e-mail since almost no one reads articles off the mail board.

Of course you have my real e-mail address.

I must have missed yours but maybe you could post it so everyone that is interested in your comments can respond.

tomgarven@hotmail.com "




desert iguana wrote on Apr 8, 2010 8:19 AM:

" tomgarven has to stop being mediator here and get out of the way. I will not support anymore money for anything! Believe it! Look at the facts! Bloated. Waste. Irresponsibility.
Leave us alone and we will all take care of problems that arise as a result of the cuts in funding. Money is not the answer. I will personally step up and help to fix these problems. What about you? "




tomgarven wrote on Apr 5, 2010 7:46 AM:

" Well said bobo and I totally agree. It seem like every time we turn around we are creating another government agency, division or department.

Tom G. "




bobo wrote on Apr 4, 2010 2:13 PM:

" To save our schools, we must limit the size of the Federal Government. Schools are funded by the State through the County and administered by the local school board. It must be kept at local control. How can we do this when the Feds are consuming 28% of our GDP? Stop sending money to Washington D.C.! "




tomgarven wrote on Apr 3, 2010 11:30 AM:

" Havacomment24 wrote [in part] "It is very very sad to see grown adults bickering ... where everyone should be focused on ... the children.

Tom G. give a lengthy response:

It is highly unlikely that very much of anything will happen to the educational system by the time your son enters the K-12 educational system. However, if you happen to be IN the educational system this is probably one of the most difficult times in your life.

As a senior citizen I have seen many things happen to our educational system over time. Some things I consider to be positive and others - not so much. However by the very fact that you are expressing your opinion and concerns for your child I believe you will be one of those parents who will actively participate in your child's education and that is a very good thing.

If I were a young adult today I would have many concerns related to education. After a child's needs for food,shelter and nurturing are met you are certainly correct that education if right up there near the top of almost everyone's list. No matter what happens to our society be it; war, big government, no government, taxes, recessions, job loss, almost anything - once you have LEARNED something it can never be taken away from you. That's why in America we fund education with both government and public funds - it's that important.

My biggest concern at the moment is the growth rate of governments for several reasons. For every dollar we send to a federal, state or local government we get some small percentage of those dollars returned to us in the form of some type of function or service. Some goes to national defense, some for state highways and yes even some for local school districts just to name a few. However; for the most part, government agencies do not produce a product and many are terribly inefficient. You can't eat what the government provides. You can't drive it or plant it in the ground and watch it grow. To me, governments are no different than corporations - both will grow themselves until they run out of money. When they do, they will raise more by issuing stock or ask for more money in the form of taxes so they can continue to grow.

In closing if I were a parent today OR someone in the educational system I would be demanding smaller governments at all levels. Today for example, we might put $1,000 of our tax dollars into a government system and get back [pick any number] maybe $.25 cents in the form of some function or service. As governments continue to grow that $.25 number will continue to shrink to pay for ever larger and larger government agencies.

If we want more money for our schools from the federal and state governments we should be demanding smaller and smaller government agencies. Put quite simply - It's no different than donating to a charitable agency. Some of the most effective agencies at transmitting money directly to the public are those with the smallest administrative costs. Should our government be any different?

That's my opinion - what's yours?
tomgarven@hotmail.com "




Havacomment24 wrote on Apr 2, 2010 10:06 AM:

" It is very very sad to see grown adults bickering at each other in a time where everyone should be focused on one thing, the children. My son is two years old. What is going to happen by the time he gets into school? Is school even going to be around in Havasu at that time? Are they going to cut school to just a few hours a day so that McCullouch will look all glammed up for the rich visitors that don't come here anymore? "




tomgarven wrote on Apr 2, 2010 9:30 AM:

" America's Best- And Worst-Educated Cities
Joshua Zumbrun, 11.24.08,

This article made me angry and could not believe a journalist would use or mis-use data to prove a point.

I did some further research using the same data as the author of this work to try and determine why Lake Havasu City was classified as the least-educated community. I really dislike people who try and condemn and bad mouth our community as this author did.

You might find it interesting how this author manipulated the data to suit his needs. He either had a bone to pick with someone in Havasu or had some other motive to attack our city. Someone in Havasu must have really made Zumbrun angry. First of all are his statements defining the data set.

“To come up with the list, we looked at the 10 most - and least - educated metro areas in the U.S., as measured by the proportion of the population with bachelor's, master's, professional and doctoral degrees, according to data from the American Community Survey of the U.S. Census Bureau. Cities looked at were all metropolitan or micropolitan statistical areas with more than 100,000 people, age 25 or over”

This quoted statement above is a bold faced lie or error – you choose the term to use. In Lake Havasu City according to census data from 2006-2008 there were 38,409 individuals over the age of 25. This was the first error since we are nowhere near the 100,000 population cut-off. What else did he do. He combined Lake Havasu City with Kingman Arizona yet never mentioned that Kingman is a separate city with it's own educational programs.

Also Havasu as stated above has 38,409 and Kingman has 20,712 individuals in the 25 year age category. It doesn't take a college grad to figure out this is still significantly LESS than 100,000 cut off established for the article. In fact the author compared Havasu [+Kingman] to typical cities with the following populations.

Vineland, NJ 103,000, Merced, CA 139,000 and Visalia, CA 240,000

How about you – would you try to compare a retirement community and a tourist destination with industrialized communities in the middle of a state like Californian or New Jersey? Not only that; why would young people in the 25 year old age category seeking an advanced degree stay in Havasu anyway. There are mostly service industry jobs in our community so young people who want an advanced degree in something usually move out of Havasu before the age of 25. But even then we still have 3,513 with Bachelor's degrees or 9.1% if you are keeping track.

This author and the article as written, is a really a good example of how you can use data to make a point even though the point you are trying to make is a lie. "




tomgarven wrote on Apr 1, 2010 9:30 PM:

" localeducator wrote [in part] "This town has been rated "the least educated city in the country."

tomgarven responds: When I did a search for "the least educated city" the first item on the Google list was a document which lists the top 100 least educated cities over 5,000 in population [actually 159 cities listed]. I did not see Lake Havasu City on that list.

There were about 50 California cities
There were about 25 Texas cities and various other states, and;
There were 6 Arizona cities on the listing and none of those were Lake Havasu City.

I did further searching and found the 2008 web page and data I think you quoted from. The bottom of that page shows the following data.

Education:
High School or Higher: 83.8%
Bachelor's Degree or Higher: 13.1%
Graduate or Professional Degree: 4.9%

According to this data Lake Havasu City is well above the highest level of the best city on the least educated city listing which is:

West Modesto, CA which has
4.6% bachelors and 50.2% HS grads.

So I don't have any idea why Forbes chose to call Lake Havasu City the least educated city in American when the data does not support their statement. The actual data shows we are far superior to any of the listed cities.

Possibly you can enlighten us as to why Forbes did this? "




localeducator wrote on Apr 1, 2010 11:27 AM:

" This town has been rated "the least educated city in the country." Should we add "most selfish" as well? "




johnjay wrote on Mar 31, 2010 6:02 PM:

" RR,
I just don't get it. The Arizona school system finished second to last in the eyes of the Fed, and yet you keep telling us how great Havasu is, it's a "AZ Learns top 20 school district", who determined that the same people that wrote the report the feds torn apart. You keep trying to increase taxes on the back of citizens property, taxes they can't afford. There is 3 billion dollars sitting on the table in D.C. Why do you keep going after the poor Havasu taxpayer that is just trying to survive. Go talk to the FED, they have all the money. Tell them you think your school leaders in Phoenix are incompetent, JUST LEAVE US ALONE. "




riverruner wrote on Mar 31, 2010 1:38 PM:

" John jay I will say you are persistent. LHUSD is a AZ Learns top 20 school district, and has 6 Excelling schools, and you still characterize the district by the state’s failure to win a Race to the Top sub-grant. If you cared to contact Deb Duval from the governor’s office you would find that LHUSD agreed to all the provisions of RTTT…accountability and all. I will also remind you that 48 other states failed to receive sub grants. Fairness is found in facts and the facts are LHUSD is a very good school district both in terms of academic performance and fiscal responsibility (See the AZ auditor general report) in a state which consistently underfunds schools…clearly you are better at cherry picking reasons to hate a good district than you are at acknowledging all the facts. "




icarehavasu wrote on Mar 31, 2010 11:39 AM:

" DEAR ALL: Education comes first and foremost! The greatest gift we can give is FIRST CLASS EDUCATION for every child and adult in this country! I will pay the $9.00 extra! We will have hot dogs or not eat out a couple of nights each month if needed! I want our schools to have money and no worries! We need to cradle the school district not drop them like a hot potato! Everyone should care - I CARE HAVASU! "




dudu2 wrote on Mar 31, 2010 11:16 AM:

" For all the bullies who support the override on the other people's money: I respect your opinion only if you pay for it! Stop try to steal my money! I'm lucky and I have the $9 per months, but you are not going to get it! You are free to call me names, but I will protect my money! "




tomgarven wrote on Mar 31, 2010 11:13 AM:

" Beyond Today wrote [in part] "My kids have gone through the schools ... I am very pleased with the education they received.

Tom G. responds: O.K so what's your point?

I guess a good word to apply here might be compassion. Compassion towards some of the personal hardships of other individuals who have posted on this form.

We are all facing:
* Higher medical insurance premiums
* Peak oil of 2014 will probably make gas $5.00/gallon.
* Taxes [both hidden and outright] are going up to cover government spending.
* More residents are paying $2000 hookup and $50/mo for sewer fees.
* Major corporation which once funded retiree health care are being eliminated, and;
* Medication cost will be going up.

So it's not just about the $9.00/mo month any longer is it? For some it might be several hundreds.

We used to manufacturer stuff in this country. Everywhere you look as a nation we are being left behind. China now spends more on renewable energy than we do. India has some of the best computer programmer in the world. We can't even build a nuclear reactor in the U.S. because we no longer have forges large enough to handle the steel thickness required. The problems in the U.S. go far beyond $9.00/mo.

Now all we seem to talk about on the news is how consumer spending will be used to jump start the economy. For consumers to spend they have to have a job. For every dollar we send to Washington we get some small fraction returned to the people. As the government continues to grow, there will be less and less money returned to the people and less and less for local communities. And yes the same can be said for our schools. Every new administrative position added mean one less teacher in the classroom.

So please 'Beyond Today' please don't condemn the few beer drinking, $12.95/mo dial-up internet users for not supporting the over-ride because many do. I will support the over-ride because I am currently able to and for no other reason.

Next year it may be a different story. "




third eye wrote on Mar 31, 2010 5:39 AM:

" Typical mindset "Beyond Reason". Throw around "you drink beer" and turn off your internet. You didn't address one point in my post. Bla Bla Bla is all I hear from you and yours. Our kids deserve the best, I agree, but they deserve the best with what we have to offer. Sometimes we don't have that much. Please have a heart, don't be so cold and unfeeling towards the plight of others, especially when you are reaching into their pocket against their will. Like a thief. "




johnjay wrote on Mar 30, 2010 10:21 PM:

" Ok I'm tired of the bunk too. Everyone, here is the link showing how all the states scored with the fed reviewers for the "Race to the Top" program and their plans to run their school systems.
http://www2.ed.gov/programs/racetothetop/phase1-applications/index.html
Arizona was absolutely pathetic 246 out 500 points possible, we call that an "F". Delaware 454 out of 500, The Arizona school officials are absolutely incompetent, they presented a bunch of fluff with no substance, the reviewers tore the Arizona application apart and didn't even give it a second look. And you want more OVERRIDE tax money, the federal government is telling the citizens, clean up your schools or no more funds. Why shouldn't the citizens of Lake Havasu do the same? "




Beyond Today wrote on Mar 30, 2010 8:23 PM:

" First Tom, I am not a teacher or in any am I affiliated with the district. My kids have gone through the schools here and from Arizona Universities. I am very pleased with the education they received. And yes I payed extra for sports, music, etc. Parents do pay for their kids instruments in the district. If you know anything about band, symphony, etc there are just some instruments that are not feasible for a parent to purchase.
There is no reason any child in todays schools should not receive the best education available. If that includes extending the override for a sum on average of $9.00 month ($2.25 week). So if that amount, Third Eye is whether you eat that week, maybe you need to get rid of your internet connection and sale your laptop. And if this berates you, this administration has already set the rules and making new ones daily.
And for those stating " no more money", maybe do away with a six pack for the week. I will be a major advocate for passing the override. We did it once and will do it again. See you at the voting booths. "




hughbert wrote on Mar 30, 2010 3:48 PM:

" Help - Thanks for the link but the data strictly focuses on spending. Reread my posts - there is no correlation between per pupil spending and educational achievement. Would you somehow feel better if AZ doubled its spending to be right up there with DC and had the same performance results? Supporters are looking to extend a *temporary* tax override (increase) when the district has not shown that it can prudently allocate funding. Your thought process is what makes this *temporary* sales tax increase proposal so dangerous. If enacted, when the time comes for it to expire there will be gnashing of teeth and the argument "we just want to keep what we already have."

Tired- The easy, and fiscally irresponsible, thing for elected officials to do would be to vote yes to all the funding requests and receive the adulation of organizations like the AZ Education Network. It takes courage to sensibly vote no during a severe budget crisis and face the scorn of special interests - for that I thank them. "




tiredofbunk wrote on Mar 30, 2010 2:02 PM:

" Johnjay why dont you meet Gail personally, if you do i doubt you would come away with the negative attitude you portray here. And for McLain what a horrible example. I heard of one school that didn't use money wisely. That is a large cop out! she should be ashamed of herself. And for Mr. Gould, i have heard from numerous sources that he home schooled his kids so of course he is against public funding. When he was on council he was just the NO! vote, its easier that way. Quality communities have quality schools. Learn the facts. "




Help! wrote on Mar 30, 2010 11:23 AM:

" Hugbert...here is a link to census data about school spending....certainly not NEA information...Arizona still ranks at the bottom. http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/education/010125.html

I agree, many Arizona schools are doing a great job with what they have. That is all the district is asking for...to keep what they have to renew the override they are currently on, they are not asking for any more. "




tomgarven wrote on Mar 30, 2010 8:10 AM:

" Beyond Today wrote [in part] "How about we tell all the parents they ... $9.00 a month will drive them to bankruptcy.

Tom G. responds: I can hear the anger in your words but for a few people that $9.00/month might just put them over the top. I know several people living on credit card cash advances and buying used clothing at garage sales. By the way did you know that used clothing is now one of the biggest selling items at garage sales. This should tell you how tough things are getting for a lot of people in Havasu.

I don't disagree with you 'Beyond Today'; my daughter is a teacher and is very concerned about her future. However, there are many more areas to cut besides teachers. At least one legislator stated in the article: "legislators do not believe that all of our education dollars are spent as wisely as they might be.”

I worked in corporate American for 20 years and some of those years were spend re-engineering corporate business practices. Did you know that at least 20-30% of all business practices can be eliminated without affecting the operation of most organizations. That does not mean that 20% of all teachers can be eliminated - it only means that it might be possible to cut up to 20% of all district jobs without affecting the overall effectiveness of the educational system. As much as it pains me to say this; we may soon have to start looking at everyone's job at the District and eliminating those that are not mandated by state law.

I have said this many times in my online posts - if you are single or can relocate you might want to investigate jobs in the government - they are hiring thousands.

Why would you want to continue to work in the private sector or education when you can work for the government for twice the money with twice the number of holidays? For many teachers the answer is quite simple - they love to teach and I can tell by the passion in your voice you are one of those teachers. "




third eye wrote on Mar 30, 2010 5:47 AM:

" Beyond Today, I think the residents here want to see the district make some cuts in areas other than teacher's jobs. They want to see programs cut that don't directly effect academic performance. The "nice to have" classes, administration positions etc etc. Do we need to spend $700,000 on sports programs? Do we need three administrators at the high school when we have a significant loss in enrollment and less teachers to supervise? Do we need a library at the high school when we have a perfectly good County library? Do we need to provide school lunches? Do we need to provide transportation? Do we need choir, band, cheerleading or drama classes? Do we need an Assistant Superintendent? Let's at least have a dialogue about this. Let's put it on the table and see what the opinions are. I know I get pretty indiginant when someone, who doesn't know me, berates me for how or when I will spend MY money. You didn't work for it, I did. I don't appreciate your lack of empathy. Maybe that 9 dollars is what I have to eat for the week. "




Beyond Today wrote on Mar 29, 2010 8:13 PM:

" How about we tell all the parents they will have to home school their own kids because the residents of this town think the $9.00 a month will drive them to bankruptcy. Do you really expect teachers to stay when their class sizes will be increased to 30-40 students, their wages reduced, which is already embarassing to pay someone holding a Bachelors or Masters degree.
Just think of all the new dog parks you'll have turning all the playgrounds into them. I think I will apply for a Copyright on the name Sun City II, because that is what this town is turning into. "




tomgarven wrote on Mar 29, 2010 7:58 PM:

" Normally I try to post positive comments. Tonight I am going to make an exception.

I am afraid this is just the beginning of the cuts we are going to see. When the health care bill was passed there was a big hit in the bill to the states [and corporations] to cover the expansion of the medicaid program. For corporations that means passing the costs of higher insurance premiums on to me a retiree which means I must further reduce my own spending which means less to be spent at local businesses. The state legislature must also now try to find more money from somewhere else with deeper cuts in many of the programs already cut [like education]. Look for more state park closings, more cuts to other state services like MVD which in the end will mean further local budget cuts.

This free lunch we have been on for the last 9 years or so is about to come to an end. Sooner or later we need to start paying for all these goodies we thought we were getting for free. Medicare is broke, Social Security is broke, the State is broke and USPS is broke to name just a few.

I hate to say this, but this may not end well unless some significant changes are made. "




BonHomme Richard wrote on Mar 29, 2010 2:13 PM:

" How many of you guys wanting a FREE ride send extra money to the schools for your kid? when I grow up our parent had to pay for supplies, insurance, etc.,
Why do you expect for everyone to pay for your daycare, and feed your kids? "




hughbert wrote on Mar 29, 2010 10:52 AM:

" Nice comments Third Eye. All of the rankings that show AZ last or next to last come from self-serving organizations like the NEA and AEA or are based on formulas that weigh spending heavily vs performance. If you look strictly at performance - Terra Nova or NAEP results - AZ ranks mid pack among states and LHC is better than national avg. The problem isn't the teachers, they are doing outstanding work. The problem is administration.
Third Eye is exactly right - If we don't have the money we can't spend it - THERE IS NO MORE MONEY. "




Third Eye wrote on Mar 29, 2010 7:21 AM:

" Los Tacos: Which report are you referring to? NEA.ORG (2009-2010) Estimates? These numbers are driven by 2006-2008 School Data. Interestingly enough on page 10 under General Financial Resources it clearly states that personal income drives state tax systems. Arizona is number 45 on Table D7, Personal Income per Student in Fall Enrollment. It looks like Arizonans don't have money in the first place. We are below the National Average by about $1000 per year. If we don't have it, how can we spend it? Rankings mean nothing without the accomplishments of the students. If we spend less and out students outperform then what are we complaining about? According to SAT scores by state Arizona is averaging 525 math, 519 critical reading and 491 writing. We rank right about in the middle. Now what? "




northbound wrote on Mar 29, 2010 6:58 AM:

" Thank you hughbert, yes I remember back in the late 70's when I was at LHHS all the band members parents paid for their instruments which was why I was only in chior my parents couldn't afford to do that back then. I agree Gail needs to leave the school district maybe it's time for an overhaul. I'm tired of my taxes going up because the schools have to buy the things for students parents should be buying. How about just taxing family's that have children that are in school only and stop expecting people who don' t have children in school to bay for things they shouldn't have to. "




bobo wrote on Mar 26, 2010 10:22 AM:

" Here we go again...LOL..the taxtakers versus the taxpayers. What part of "NO MORE MONEY" do you not understand? "




LosTacos wrote on Mar 26, 2010 7:55 AM:

" AZ just fell from #46 to #50 on the education rank. AZ now has the worst education system, test scores ect... in the nation. Legislature should be proud now AZ has made the bottom of the list for every category and went from best state to one of the worst states to live in list within a matter of three years. While all other states are recovering from the "recession" AZ just digs a deeper hole, Now officially economy is worse then Californians...Not good. "




hughbert wrote on Mar 25, 2010 8:31 PM:

" Beyond - I've been to the Tbolt pep rally and listened to the one-sided story. All I can tell you is don't believe everything you hear from the self-serving administrators. Contradicting myself? Are you defending $2000 trumpets? I'm not advocating cutting art, music, or gym class. But the district's record of fiscal mismanagement to satisfy the almost endless special interests does not inspire any sort of confidence additional "temporary" override funding will be better allocated. Our esteemed Gov came to LB resort to pitch her "temporary" sales tax increase and said about the state budget, "the checkbook is overdrawn, the house is mortgaged and the credit cards are maxed out." What makes her think that things are any different for We the People? In other words its time for the state and LHUSD to live within their means because THERE IS NO MORE MONEY. "




Beyond Today wrote on Mar 25, 2010 4:44 PM:

" "Hughbert" before you applaud our lawmakers for "not tossing money into schools where non academic special interests quickly sponge up the money", you wrote you were in "band" , are you not contradicting yourself? You stated your parents payed for your instrument, did they also pay additionally for that non academic class?
I will be at one of the districts override meetings at one of the schools, I would invite you and others like you to do the same. You might be enlightened on actual school budgets instead of presuming. I have no children in the LHUSD, all have graduated from LHUSD and ASU and NAU. We have the obligation to give the students the best education possible. Just as your parents payed for that "non academic special interest" class called "band". "




johnjay wrote on Mar 25, 2010 1:38 PM:

" hughbert,

Very well said. If we don't get Gail and her cronies in line now, we will never have any kind of financial discipline. We will continue down this road into the abyss with zero chance of any recovery. "




hughbert wrote on Mar 25, 2010 9:15 AM:

" Evidently, according to supposedly non biased and independent Arizona Education Network, the best way to affect academic performance is to increase per-pupil spending. This is a common misconception. Research of academic achievement and educational spending over the past almost 100 years does not support this. The simple fact of the matter is that student performance can't be bought. That said, this rabid quest to maximize funding has to be about more than educational performance - it’s about special interests. Here is an example. When I went to school and was in band I (my parents) had to buy my own instrument. This is the article from 4/8/08 News Herald - Board seeks bid for 53 new band instruments - Audience applauds plan seeking up to $100,000. That's nearly $2000 per instrument! Add post retirement employment, fleet vehicles, marching band outfits, solar panels, girls soccer out of country trips, etc, etc to the list of special interests LHUSD has or has proposed to spend money on. Not to mention bloated administration.

I say thank you to the brave elected officials who, knowing that the state faces a severe financial shortage, have voted to not toss money into schools where non academic special interests quickly sponge up the money. Bottom line - LHUSD needs to focus on academics and live within its means. THERE IS NO MORE MONEY. "

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