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No more trail mix

No horseback riding allowed on SARA Park trails this year

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Posted: Friday, January 25, 2013 12:01 am

BJ Hill says he wants to continue providing horse rides on SARA Park trails to Lake Havasu, but concerns from bikers that the horses left the trails in poor condition have canceled the 2013 season.

The city won’t allow Hill’s Swift Creek Outfitters and Teton Horseback Adventures — which operates out of Jackson Hole, Wyo. and provides horse rides, backcountry fishing and hunting trips there during the summer months — to continue the rides this year until the trail concerns are addressed.

Mountain bike riders and hikers were upset that the trails had devolved into several inches of dust and unexpected divots with horses being allowed on the same trails they use.

Many who enjoyed the horse rides on the SARA Park trails have contacted Hill asking him about taking a ride again on the trails, Hill said.

“We would love to come back, but we can’t,” Hill said. “Our clients are calling and we have no way to operate.”

There doesn’t seem to be any current movement toward resolving the conflict.

“Unfortunately we feel there are too many conflicts with existing uses and no plan or compromise is in place for sharing of the existing trails,” an Aug. 21 letter from the city’s Community Services Director Greg Froslie said, detailing the decision.

The city’s letter also stated that the city and the Bureau of Land Management could better address the trails issue through the BLM’s Travel Management Plan which is being crafted to address trail uses at SARA Park. The plan will “determine if commercial trail rides are compatible with existing trail uses.”

The Bureau of Land Management which owns SARA Park, but leases the property to the city for recreation and public purposes, hasn’t had any contact with Hill in recent months.

As a business owner, it’s on Hill’s shoulders to work toward a solution, Froslie said. It’s not the city’s responsibility to reach out to him, he added.

Hill had a differing perspective.

“I feel that we lost the 2013 season because nobody wanted to take the time to get us back on track,” Hill said.

Hill acknowledged the concerns saying “the bike community did not like the way the horses were tearing up the trails and basically didn’t want us down there.”

“I get what they’re saying,” Hill said. “But we only used about 10 percent of those trails and they have 90 percent to run on.”

Last year, horse rides were offered from February through April. Yet, Hill eyed a lengthier riding season at the park, starting just before Christmas and concluding May 1.

“To come out of the snow and pull into here is like paradise,” Hill said. “We got a good thing going there.”

While Hill said he wants to “adjust to the issues,” Froslie said it was “his understanding” that Hill hasn’t been cooperative with those concerned about the trails.

“We fight very hard for trail maintenance,” said Aaron Boatman, a mountain biker and founder of the SARA Mountain Park Trails Association. “It’s a very sensitive subject.” The group works many hours on trail maintenance, he added.

When the horse rides were allowed out there last year, “the horses turned the trail into a powdery mush,” Boatman said. There were big, two foot divots in the trails where the horses went, he added.

Craig Raney, owner of Havasu Bike and Fitness, who Hill specifically referred to as not wanting the horses on SARA Park trails, declined to comment for this article.

The Bureau of Land Management’s Travel Management Plan is nearly completed, said Jayson Barangan, assistant field manager for recreation and operations. Hill hasn’t requested any permits from the BLM.

You may contact the reporter at gmoberly@havasunews.com.

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22 comments:

  • Havasu Happy Dogs posted at 9:31 am on Mon, Feb 11, 2013.

    Havasu Happy Dogs Posts: 3

    @BrightOne, When God created the magnificent horse it was not wearing Steel Shoes created by “corrupt species known as man” (your words). Evidently you and others supporting the Commercial Herd tramping endlessly back and forth, back and forth, were not out there TRYING to hike during that time and did not witness 1st hand the “rototiling” done to these beautiful trails by the Commercial Dude String. These popular fragile desert trails have been used by wild equines, Recreational Horses, Hikers, Bikers, Runners, and Private Pack Stock historically. The complaints are not about “horses”; the complaint is the condition of the trails and the resulting “loss of use & enjoyment to Pre-Existing Users” after only a couple months of the Commercial Herd’s arrival, along with the callous disregard of “corrupt species known as man” (your words) to do any Trail Maintenance or Repair. These, and additional (ignored) mandates were covered by Stipulations of contracts that were signed, agreed to and in place. Recreational horseback riders ARE allowed to ride “wherever on the dirt”. Bikers and Hikers are “wearing rubber” on the trails and have groups volunteering to do maintenance and repair. It costs $ to volunteer (supplies, fuel etc.). Think about this: Why a Sole Proprietor Business should profit off of Public Lands (us tax-payers) while refusing to do mandated repair and maintenance; and even more confusing, refuse offers of help to do such repairs? Submitted by member of a family of experienced horse lovers, trail work volunteers, hikers, Back Country Horsemen members & "not Mt.Biker".

     
  • BrightOne posted at 12:45 pm on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

    BrightOne Posts: 356

    Just another blunder by the human species.
    I say let horseback riders ride wherever on the dirt. A horse is God made creature.
    Let bikers (Bikes made by the corrupt species known as man), ride where ever and quit griping about horses.
    The one post about the bikers being rude to the horseback riders, too bad the horse didn't backkick the biker. That would have been sweet.

     
  • POOF posted at 10:00 pm on Tue, Jan 29, 2013.

    POOF Posts: 1

    @getovrit, your hatred of mountain bikers is obvious in your venom. In your post, you lose sight of the issue of a private for-profit company not coming back. Instead you used it to lash out at a group or individual that is supposedly misusing "your" trails. You must have not noticed in the article that also hikers are opposed to the horse tour company. Last year, I personally witnessed hikers walk into a bike shop and sign the petition against the outfit. I also have friends that were for the outfit until they saw the damage caused. I'm not opposed to a horse or two on the trail, but a whole group running a few tours a day was excessive. It's hard for me to believe you didn't see how deep and powder-dusted the trails became when the tours started. In fact, since the company left, the trails have been packed down again. Studies have shown that rolling tires from bikes (not motorcycles) actually help pack down trails. People should be grateful that horses are allowed out there. There are plenty of other trail systems in the U.S. that won't even allow horses. Furthermore, I too have been frequenting SARA Park for more than 14 years. If you have been here longer than that, it's easy to see that overall the trail system out there has only improved due to the amount of foot and bike traffic. It simply packs it down. All of those trails out there used to be a lot more rugged. Some sections are basically dirt sidewalks now. As for the "Beer Bottle" name, that is only because a long time ago, someone hung a bottle on a bush out there (not from carousing moutain bikers as your post would imply). The real travesty out there comes from people that party out there at night and people that dump things in the washes. Lastly, I'm sorry you had a close call. I don't condone wreckless and rude behavior, but it happens everywhere. I had a close call driving in traffic the other day, but I'm not crying still. Your post paints a picture of mountain bikers being out there in gang form. I am out there 3-4 times a week and have never heard of anyone having a run-in or cursing at the horse riders or hikers. In fact, I've had quite a few good conversations with hikers concerning things not even related to this whole issue. Maybe next time say "hi" as I do when I pass. Lastly, if you are truly out there 3-4 times a week, you will have to swallow your pride and admit that hikers are still the overwhelming majority of users out there as evidenced by the cars in both parking lots now. As far as growing up goes, look in the mirror sir. [wink]

     
  • Havasu Happy Dogs posted at 9:02 pm on Tue, Jan 29, 2013.

    Havasu Happy Dogs Posts: 3

    @ Roco states: "So, from your take on things, you don't want 95 Speedway there because they fit your description". In answer: Roco, if you want to run race cars off a designated Speedway onto "Non-Motorized Trails", tear 'em up, destroy them, cause irreparable damage, refuse to do repair, run Pre-Existing Users off, refuse to comply with Stipulations to "co-exist", at Tax-Payers expense and loss of use - then "Yes" myself , family (& Hiking Buddies) are against it. We're talking Non-Motorized Trails - what are you even talking about? and Why? Last I knew the Speedway had some pretty good programs & plans to contribute and carry their own weight financially.

     
  • SMPTA posted at 7:26 pm on Tue, Jan 29, 2013.

    SMPTA Posts: 3

    @getoverit. My name is Aaron Boatman and I'm more than happy to speak with you directly about any concerns of actions of the SMPTA (SARA Mountain Parks Trail Association). You can reach me at aaronboatman@yahoo.com and we can talk about your concerns of the trails. I personally think that anyone who calls people out by name but yet hides behind an alias is being a coward.

    I personally think I've done a great job listening to all user groups and continue to do so. I have put myself in a position to receive input from all recreational user groups, many of the winter visitors who hike the trails on a daily basis, campers, horse riders who visit the area from time to time (back country horseman), dog walkers and obviously my three most popular groups just based upon my personal hobbies the mountain bikers, rock climbing and trail running.

    I apologize if i don't frequent these message boards often and or use this forum as a place for public outcry or self defense. I find these forums kind of meaningless as I personally don't see resolutions in them just whining. Which is devote more of my time to proactive measures such as council meetings, public involvement and am part of a few different local and state level trail committees, but to each his own. Im just a citizen with a voice like everyone else. But the age old question bring me solutions not problems.

    Allow me to direct some comments to your statements.
    "Who does trail maintenance?" I along with other members of the SMPTA have done trail maintenance. From picking up trash, GPS data for BLM, Setting up and arranging National Public Lands Day, Resigning the yellow trail, Fixing the marque, applying for grants to improve the trailhead. Its a tough subject to talk about because to get legal permission to do much of anything out there takes some time. but i've been active for the past 6 years now.

    "I've never seen them do anything but put up ridiculous signs so the bikers know where their trail goes." This is not the SMPTA I do not know who has placed the signage you are referring to. I will say I have been active in trying to get the entire 40 miles of GPS data that i've done for the BLM signed. Mainly for safety. But id also like others to enjoy the area and I've had a zillion conversations at the Kiosk TH about trails. Most common..."How do I get to the Tabletop?" Trying to explain to someone who doesn't hike the area to look for a trail that starts behind a hidden rock with no sign...well you get my point. I have also found many hikers on various trails using clippers cutting bushes, and kicking rocks (a lot of rocks) out of the way. I dont say anything to me its there form of trail care. Although rocks are the protection against natural erosion from rain run off but thats another topic...

    @getoverit...You said "...Hikers don't need signs in the southern area because very few visitors hike that area unless with the Havasu Hikers group." You couldn't be more false. This area is over flowing with locals, visitors and youth who use the area on a daily basis all user groups. I wish you could be a bit more educated also on the safety of the area. The Lake Havasu City Fire Department has an average 2 technical rescues a month in the SARA Park area from lost or injured users and 90% of them are hikers...hikers (not bikers, not equestrian, hikers). Most sadly was the recent death of a young female hiker who became lost while hiking on the yellow trail (the trail the BLM just resigned on NPLD). I cant tell you how many times this (Aaron Boatman) mountain biker, trail runner, climber and founder of SMPTA has stopped to talk with fellow hikers at the trailhead for directions and input, I can't tell you how many times i've called 911 for hikers disoriented, dehydrated, vomiting, diarrhea, hurt, and scared because they are lost on the trails of SARA Park. Im not trying to paint a scary picture of dangers of going out there because I think its one of the greatest recreations we have available in this community but to say it is one user group that is at fault is a no no. Now i dont the place over flowing with signs and so many trails that its a spider web of trails but that is why im helping with the BLM TMP (Trail management plan). But i cant stop people for doing that also. Not my job. I do however use my knowledge to educate people the right process and place for creating trails when I come across them. you should do the same.

    I am not against recreational horses at SARA Park. I think its funny how BJ Hill is trying that spin. I, and a lot of others as well, are against commercial horseback tours down our main trails and through 90% of our multi-use trails. We could easily co-exist. But BJ Hill doesnt want to go down a wash and stay off the main trailhead. he would not budge in any of the 3 meetings we had to discuss options.

    @getoverit Im surprised that you didn't notice the change in the soil last year when the commercial horses were here. I did and many others too. Im surprised you didn't participate at the advisory meetings put on by the city and BLM to help find a solution.

    As for being run over by cyclist on the trails. Thats horrible. Ill be the first to admit we have some idiots out there that are selfish and feel its there right to do that. Just the same as some kids think the table top is a great place to smoke pot, and just the same as some others think its ok to drink beer as they hike the crack then throw there cans in the bushes. We all have sour apples. I personally have never hit anyone or pushed anyone off a trail at SARA Park. I have snuck up on some hikers and said excuse me and scared the be-jesus out of them, not intentionally though. id say im a pretty nice guy on the trails and so are 99% of the users. Address the 1% people who are abusing the trails individually. The SMPTA endorses the trail sharing triangle where bikes give way to horses and hikers. Hikers do give way to bikes on technical singletrack as a safety concern and we appreciate that. Also we are working with BLM to address this in the next round of improvements at the trailhead. But that is only signage. Its not law. We also endorse the pack it in pack it out. Im not telling you to pick a fight on the trails but I feel you are well within your rights to say to someone that what they did is unsafe and not appreciated.

    Anymore questions, concerns, comments please direct me an email. I would also be willing to accept anyones help in the direction of SARA Park as a citizen with a voice. I have started a Facebook page called SARA Mountain Park Trails Association where people can share there use age of the trails. I also use this to notify people of upcoming community meetings, voting, agendas, etc etc. Thanks for reading.

    Aaron Boatman

     
  • getovrit posted at 11:41 am on Mon, Jan 28, 2013.

    getovrit Posts: 1

    I became very frustrated reading your subject article regarding trail users and the damage caused by same. I have been hiking trails the the Sara Park area, mostly south of the Sara Crack area, for the last 18 years. I hike the area 3-4 times per week in the winter. Believe me, the damage done to the trails is not by foot traffic , or horse traffic, but by the mountain bikes. They don't abide by the "make no new trails and no trail cutting". Yes there are conflicts. I don't see trails, that a horse would use ie. going off and up the side of a hill or a horse popping wheelies over virgin rock areas. Mountain bikers are the "BULLIES OF THE LOCAL TRAILS."
    No, I am not a horse owner or rider. Those days were long ago. However I am a hiker. More than once, I have been close to being knocked off a trail by mountain bikers. They don't know trail courtesy. The trails are much worse since this activity has taken over our hiking trails. Who does trail maintenance? I've never seen them do anything but put up ridiculous signs so the bikers know where their trail goes. Hikers don't need signs in the southern area because very few visitors hike that area unless with the Havasu Hikers group. Trail maintenance to bikers is the putting up of signs or building rock barricades so their bikers don't go the wrong way. The owner of Havasu Bike and Fitness should take time from his cash register and teach trail courtesy and take the bikers out there and correct the mess THEY are making of the trails. You talk about two foot divots in the trails! What about the mess and and the new trails the bikers make? They need to groom the trails themselves. Sometimes you have to look for the trail since the bikes have thrashed and grooved what used to be there. Take a look at some of the hills where the bikers have made their own trail. It's disgusting and not made by a hiker or a four legged animal. Maybe this Aaron Boatman should groom a few trails while he is out there WALKING and putting up these ridiculous signs. "Beer Bottle Trail?" That's a great name for a trail ----NOT! It kind of says, just in the name, the mentality of those who are using it.
    These people need to GROW UP and stop blaming others for their trail destruction.

     
  • Trial By Stone posted at 8:30 am on Mon, Jan 28, 2013.

    Trial By Stone Posts: 20

    The title of this article should of been " Brokeback Mountain.........bikes.
    Maybe if Goodyear can build horseshoes with nice tread pattern would be a solution. lol.
    Also, i noticed one of the horses now has to do" Mr. Ed" impersonation acts in Vegas!
    WILBUR!!

     
  • Sissy posted at 4:43 am on Mon, Jan 28, 2013.

    Sissy Posts: 460

    WHY can't EVERYONE work together for a solution??? This is begining to sound like ALL of the USA, where everyone is locking heads! I thought AZ and Lake Havasu was better than that!! and Yes..I AM A TAXPAYER!

     
  • SMPTA posted at 11:01 am on Sat, Jan 26, 2013.

    SMPTA Posts: 3

    BJ Hill you are not telling the truth. I sat in a meeting with you and showed you and the entire BLM and City staff that the trails you were using were not on the TMP (Trail Management Plan) or in other words were not a registered trail and that what you were doing on a daily basis is considered vandalism. You were never given the right to make new trails as you see fit.

    You are also false in stating that you only used 10% of the trails. You went straight thru the main trail head and intersected EVERY marked trail except for one. There was no way any other trail user could avoid you without moving to another trail head which at this time does not exist.

    You are false in telling the readers of this forum that you obliged with your contract because you NEVER did any trail work, erosion protection, debris cleanup, or contributed $$$ back to the trails, or left the area as you found it. You were never proactive in working with other user groups.

    You may have paid your bills with the city but you still were never issued a proper water meter, that the rest of the business owners, residents and tourist use. You slipped under the radar and I was willing to work with you.

    Your poor attitude in the meeting expressing views that "I don't need to move my horse outfit." Showed you gave little care to any other user group aside from yourself. I found you to be a very selfish trail user only here for one reason and thats profit.

    Well im sorry many of us don't think you are in the best interest for SARA Mountain Park Trails. You are welcome to take your business and outfit to other parts of desert, but many of us will be watching you to make sure you are keeping up with your obligations to the betterment of the ecosystem you ride on.

     
  • riddlesgun posted at 8:18 pm on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    riddlesgun Posts: 22

    Alright then. I really thought the un-stated complaint was a bit of horse dung on someone's shiny tire. And I would state to that if the tires were that important you should probally put them up where they won't get dirty, But if the guy had a contract of sorts and didn't keep up his end, oh well, his loss.

     
  • Sissy posted at 8:09 pm on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    Sissy Posts: 460

    disappointed to read that the trail rides won't be back..I understand both sides, but there shoud be some compromise on both sides ...plenty of walking and biking trails in LH..would be nice to have something for us horse lovers too!

     
  • Sissy posted at 7:49 pm on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    Sissy Posts: 460

    I understand both sides to this...but am very disappointed that something can't be worked out..Is there another location that could be used for trail rides??

     
  • Roco posted at 6:43 pm on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    Roco Posts: 736

    @ Havasu Happy Dogs "As a Hiker and as Tax- Paying Citizens of Lake Havasu we resent that any Private Business can run a "Cash Only" Business on public lands while churning our trails into powder!" So you don't want a "Private Business for Cash Only" on public lands. So, from your take on things, you don't want 95 Speedway there because they fit your description.

     
  • Havasuhorseback posted at 6:36 pm on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    Havasuhorseback Posts: 1

    I'm BJ Hill of Havasu Horseback, and I had a lady leave a message that we were in paper and to read comments,so I did and I'm going to try and answer each comment. Havasu Horseback paid every bill that was agreed upon with Sara Park Officials. We did not break The BLM rules of trail maintenance. We started working with everybody a year before and everything was ok'd before we even got there. We were permitted to use all the non motorized trails but, conceded down to two trails to appease the bike people. We needed to have views for them to look at and have it safe enough for all riders that enjoy riding on horseback. I mean after all we thought we had a responsibility to the public and to represent Lake Havasu with great views and being as safe as we can and then twice we had a biker come through our horses with children and families as fast as they can and didn't try to slow down, and some shouting out terrible language at the wranglers, who would do that ! We have had alot of calls wanting to have us back and we did go to meetings to get this resolved and was told in a letter from Greg Froslie as stated,
    As a follow up to my May 7, 2012 correspondence, I must notify you that after further consideration of the trail issues, and the controversy that has been created with the addition of a commercial trail ride operation utilizing the trails, the city cannot support an operational base for guided trail rides in Sara Park this next season. Unfortunately we feel there are too many conflicts with existing uses and no plan or compromise is in plan for sharing of the existing trails. Well I guess that was a no and that is why we are not there this season. We hope to be there again for we loved the people there and hope we can come up with a solution , thanks.

     
  • nkfro posted at 1:44 pm on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    nkfro Posts: 362

    Riddlesgun, when was the last time you saw a mountain bike leave a fresh steaming pile of animal waste in its wake? Are you certain that you really want to compare the durability of a mountain bike with Nature original four wheel drive?

     
  • nkfro posted at 1:21 pm on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    nkfro Posts: 362

    Riddlesgun, I'm not taking sides in this dispute since I have nothing at stake in this matter. have but one question.
    1. When''s the last time you saw a mountain bike deposit and leave large, steaming piles of animal waste in their wake?

    2. Between a mountain bike rider and a person sitting on a horse, who sits higher?

    The mountain biker sits much lower. greatly reducing the distance which the rider is able see any obstructions ahead. Even if a mountain bike rider is very familiar with a particular trail, trials can and do change unexpectedly. Exceptional MB riders can handle the roughest terrain better than an average rider, but their Achilles heel is the frame.

    How many mountain bikes being used on that trail do you think have indestructible $3000 frames?

    Horses are the original four wheel drive vehicles. While not indestructible, when it comes to rough terrain, few vehicles can run the same trails as a good trail horse.
    horse. BUT when comparing a horse and a mountain bike. there is NO comparison. Have you been on a mountain bike when the frame breaks? A $3000 mountain bike is stronger, better able to withstand the physics of a rough terrain trail, BUT they DO fail. When you get down to the brass tacks, the horse is exponentially stronger and durable and spreads

     
  • schoolgrades posted at 10:50 am on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    schoolgrades Posts: 235

    Does anyone know how much he was paying the city for living out there? And did he pay for utillities?

     
  • SMPTA posted at 10:47 am on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    SMPTA Posts: 3

    First of all id like to say as founder of SARA Mountain Parks Trail Association our mission is to Promote, Maintain and Improve the trails through legal channels. We support the usage of trails for all user groups on a recreational level. Long term commercial use age of the area is not supported by the SMPTA.

    In our findings BJ Hill failed to meet his contract obligation between the BLM and his operation in several manors.

    -He was required to do trail maintenance to keep the trails in the same condition as he found them. He never did this thus failed.

    -In several areas horse waste was so large that it would require redirecting of other trail user groups to use the trail. He never addressed this.

    -He was asked to use trails that were already in the Trail Management Plan, but instead created new trails to accompany his timeline for rides. This goes against the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) of 1969 that is enforced by the BLM.

    Other trail user groups, including the Back Country Horseman, have been working since 2004 to create a local trail system that represents all user groups. BJ Hill's operation of creating trails WITHOUT permission in a sensitive desert eco-system that receives less than 4inches of annual rainfall has left a 100 year footprint in the wrong direction and could have ruined our years worth of efforts to improve the park.

    -The impact, damage, and detoriation of soil that 30 horses up to 4 times a day had on the trails in the 5 months they were here was more than the 10 years of any other user group has done.

    -Some other concerns were that BJ Hill was staying on the Friends of the Fair city leased property free of charge as a 3rd party. Do other businesses get free rent in the city?

    -What about water, we all pay for metered water where as the horses were receiving free city water.

    I know these are little things but we need to be fair.

    Keep SARA Park a recreation destination not a a commercial outfit.

     
  • Havasu Happy Dogs posted at 10:30 am on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    Havasu Happy Dogs Posts: 3

    As a Hiker and as Tax- Paying Citizens of Lake Havasu we resent that any Private Business can run a "Cash Only" Business on public lands while churning our trails into powder! This is an ARID DESERT; these Desert Trails are fragile (and cannot be repaired to the pre-use condition). The trails damaged are the ones used historically by Hikers & Bikers out of the popular major accessible-by-vehicle trailhead at SARA Park. When you walk a trail that Hikers, Recreational Horses and Bicycles have been using for 30+ years with no problems and minimal impact, and within 1 month of 30 horses tramping back and forth countless times/day have powdered into deep dust that puffs up to your waist, you can't breath and can't take your dog along anymore (on leash and we pick up poop)- something is wrong. What about Valley Fever? Dust blows for miles. Thought about Erosion? Do some research: ALL COMMERCIAL HORSE VENDORS agree by contract to do trail repair and maintenance on BLM & USFS lands. This guy has been doing business on public lands for years in fertile country that trails CAN repair. Our fragile desert trails cannot be repaired from such heavy continuous grinding impact by such heavy horse use. This guy signed Contracts and agreed to all Stipulations (and has been doing so for years prior to here): he KNOWS what he is to do to "Keep on Track". Some of us TRIED to volunteer to help him with it. He pulled in, set up business on City & BLM (tax-payer-owned) property & lands, tore up the trails, was rude to pre-existing users, NOT JUST BIKERS, and it goes on. Do you know how much water a working horse drinks per day in arid land? How much poop does each of these 30 Commercially-used Horses leave on the trail - tramping back and forth, back and forth, how many times a day? (oh, and it was such a good deal that it would be great to return with many more horses? what, twice as many? to tear up & poop on the trails and drink countless gallons of our water that WE are to "conserve" and WE pay for?) Yes, in his own words he pulled into paradise and "got a good thing going here". He's no dummy.; but those of us Tax-Paying Citizens that would willingly "welcome him back" at the expense of our public lands, expense of City ( tax-payers), & loss of historical recreational enjoyment would be! Yes, roll out the red carpet....run all pre-existing users off and open your pockets.

     
  • havadanley1 posted at 7:02 am on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    havadanley1 Posts: 83

    Oh, the City doesn't feel it is their "responsibility" to try and keep the horse riding business here and work out a solution so the bikers and walkers can have their space too! If bringing new business and trying to keep new business in this town isn't the City's "responsibility" then they all need to be fired for not doing their job! You can't tell me they can't work out a solution to this!

     
  • riddlesgun posted at 6:56 am on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    riddlesgun Posts: 22

    Let me get this straight. These mountain bikers got the horses banned because of “divots and dust” these horses created? Mountain bikes…right. Meaning these bikes are made for off road, over difficult trails and sometimes even….mountains? Maybe these spandex clad Armstrong wannabes should stick to pavement to avoid all these divots and dust. I’ve been out there and there are other dangerous obstacles to these rugged individuals and their expensive “mountain” bikes. I was required to step over rocks, shrubs, divots and you wanna talk dust…wow dust all over the place. I think it’s in all that sand. Maybe we should take all those nasty elements out of the desert and pave it over so these rugged road warriors can continue onward with that American tradition, allow them to charge forward with the vehicle that won and settled the west…those steel steeds, horses…oh..I mean…bicycles.

     
  • Jmasden posted at 5:53 am on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    Jmasden Posts: 1

    There are some pieces of background info missing. Such as the meeting at the SARA park trail head where BJ was asked by myself and several others in the Mountain Bike, hiking, and local horse riding community if he could disclose the trails he was using so we could coexist, he refused stating his permit allowed him to go anywhere he wanted and he didn't need to disclose anything.

    He was shown alternate trails as well when he first surveyed the area used by local equestrians. He refused to use those. The group that offered him the staging area did not want him back and local equestrians didn't want him back either.

    Last but not least, it is a fact that horses tend to regard bikes tge same way as they regard mountain lions. They will spook and could injure a rider or biker.

    There is room for everyone to enjoy SARA park. But his attitude was not one of compromise, he had to have it his way.

     

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