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Local residents hold up signs during a protest on July 10 against Havasu’s mask mandate and similar mandates in the county.

A group of Lake Havasu City citizens, including a pair of elected officials, added their voices to calls throughout the county, state and country to end mask requirements.

During the call to the public at the City Council meeting on Tuesday, a total of 17 residents took to the podium to express their frustrations and urge the reversal of an emergency proclamation from Mayor Cal Sheehy that requires face coverings in areas where it is difficult to physically distance from others. Many of the residents said the masks themselves create health issues for many individuals, that the proclamation is dividing the community, and also claimed that the data relied upon to make mask recommendations is incorrect or outright lies. Other popular reasons speakers gave to dispose of the mask requirements is that masks are not effective in stopping the virus from spreading, and many also asserted that the current health situation has been overblown by the media and it is not a pandemic.

Several residents also argued that the mask proclamation is an unconstitutional encroachment on their freedom.

State Senator Sonny Borrelli (R-Lake Havasu City) was one of the people to address the City Council during the call to the public. Borrelli said some of the mask requirements are being pushed by the state and are out of the city’s hands - like restaurant and bar owners potentially losing their liquor licenses if they do not require masks in their establishments.

“The other businesses that are out there don’t have a state mandate or license to hold over their head,” Borrelli said.

Borrelli and fellow District 5 legislators Leo Biasiucci (R-Lake Havasu City) and Regina Cobb (R-Kingman) have all spoken publicly in opposition to requirements to wear face coverings. But Borrelli said their hands are tied at the state level because the legislature doesn’t have enough votes to call an emergency session. He said even if they were able to call a special session, there wouldn’t be enough support to override any of Governor Doug Ducey’s executive orders because Ducey could just veto the bill. A veto requires a three-fifths majority in both chambers to override and Borrelli said the “minority party,” referring to Democrats, would not vote to overturn the executive orders.

“What I’m asking, Representative Biasucci is asking, Representative Cobb is asking, is that you stand with us and help us push back on the governor with the department of health,” Borrelli said. “I mean this with all respect, because I respect every one of you on the dias. You’ve all been elected by the people and we know that your heart is in the right place… This has to end, and we need your help to fight what is going on in Phoenix and is being pushed back on us.”

Councilmember-elect Nancy Campbell also spoke during the call to the public, informing the council that she had to fill her prescription for asthma medication for the first time in four years - which she attributed to recently starting to wear a mask.

Still, Campbell was one of the only speakers at the meeting who wore a mask prior to going up to the podium and she said it continues to cause her problems.

“As I am talking to you today I have a rash all around my face that I am broken out with,” Campbell said. “I am following your mandate. I called my doctor twice today. He said ‘Quit wearing the mask.’”

The mask proclamation in Lake Havasu City already includes a list of exemptions, including when individuals are able to socially distance, all kids under 6 years old, those with medical conditions that prevent them from wearing masks, and as part of a religious ceremony or service. Furthermore, the proclamation does not include any avenue for enforcement nor penalties for non-compliance.

Several of the speakers acknowledged that the mask proclamation doesn’t include any penalties but said some citizens have taken on enforcement by themselves.

“Many citizens feel it is their duty to bully people who are not wearing a mask,” said Karen Vanderjagt. “This is creating unrest and hostility, thereby dividing us as a community.”

Mask requirements have been instituted in many areas throughout the United States and the world in an effort to help control the spread of covid-19 but they are not universal. Even in Arizona a few communities, like Prescott and Parker, have never had a requirement to wear a mask in public.

Several citizens pointed to Prescott, specifically, as an example that Havasu should follow.

In some areas throughout the country where masks are required, citizens have recently held protests and pushed back against those mandates.

In Mohave County Kingman, Bullhead City, and Lake Havasu City all have mask requirements in place. There have been several protests in Kingman over the summer against its mask proclamation and Kingman Mayor Jen Miles recently asked the City Council to discuss the issue and ratify the proclamation. About 20 people participated in a mask protest in Havasu outside of City Hall in July.

What they want

Several of the speakers said that they don’t blame the Lake Havasu City Council itself but rather the wider culture of panic and fear that has taken hold throughout the country.

Greg Befort said he could just as easily be addressing any City Council in the country, but he is at the meeting in Havasu because they are the ones who are accountable to him as a resident.

Befort and John Yolla both added that the residents aren’t asking for permission to not wear masks - they plan on doing that anyway. Rather they are asking for the council’s help to end the proclamation. Yolla said he runs the Zero Tolerance Lake Havasu Facebook page, which has about 2,600 members who are against the facemask mandate.

“We aren’t going for it, so it is going to be an issue,” Yolla said. “We want to work with everybody, but I just want to say that this is where we are at. We are not going to be controlled with these masks. The jig is up.”

The Zero Tolerance Lake Havasu Facebook page, which is private, says its members “pledge to support, help protect and identify threats perpetrated or made against business owners, home owners and citizens.” It was created on June 2, apparently in response to the local Black Lives Matter protest that was being organized at the time.

Bill Mitchell suggested the council make Havasu a “Constitutional sanctuary city,” after asserting that the mask order itself is unconstitutional. Sara Jones urged the council to strike down the mask order immediately. Others asked the City Council to do their own research into the topic.

Some of the speakers also suggested that it’s time to lift all of the restrictions that have been put in place due to covid-19 - not just masks.

Reaction from councilmembers

City Council members are not allowed to discuss topics during meetings that are not on the agenda so councilmembers were not able to respond to the resident’s concerns on Tuesday, but a couple councilmembers thanked those who spoke for providing their input when asked on Wednesday.

“Any time a member of the public comes before their elected officials to express their thoughts it is a good thing,” Vice Mayor David Lane said in an email to Today’s News-Herald. “It is imperative the City Council has communication with the public we represent and hear from them. We appreciate them taking the time to come before us and speak their mind. There was no doubt each of those that spoke have the best interest of the community in their heart and believe their ideas are the solution to the issue.”

Councilmember Michele Lin also said in an email she was happy to see the citizens engaging with the council and respects their opinions, but she noted that she has had twice as many people thank the city for the mask mandate. Lin said she personally supports the mask mandate, believing that it helps bring down the covid numbers.

“I am not just a council member, but a private restaurant business owner, a mother, and someone with a congenital heart defect,” Lin said. “I want nothing more than to see covid gone, our city back to normal, my children back in school, my business back to full operation, and the reassurance that my health will not be jeopardized by this virus. However, until science can reassure us that this is able to happen, I will continue to practice the things that keep the community, my family and myself safe, and that includes wearing a mask.”

Lane said he doesn’t believe that the government should require masks. He said he told Sheehy that when the mayor asked for his advice prior to issuing the proclamation, but he added that he supports the mayor’s decision.

“The Mayor made the decision to issue the mandate and I support our Mayor, even when we disagree on an issue,” Lane said. “He was elected by the residents of this City to be the Mayor and make the decisions. He receives emails and phone calls daily on both sides of the issue from residents who are passionate about their position. I know he has the best interest of the residents and their health in mind before he makes any decision.”

Lane also added that if the mayor believes the mask mandate should be extended beyond the Oct. 15 expiration of the current order, he would like to see it come before the full City Council for a decision with input from the public.

Lin said she also supports the mayor’s proclamation and doesn’t think the City Council needs to vote on masks at this time.

“By the time it could be put on the agenda, and brought forth to a meeting we would already be approaching the October extension date,” she said. “It would be a discredit to our Mayor’s decision.”

Quotes from Call to the Public

“What we need is a Churchill who is not afraid to speak the truth, protect our precious liberties, and be willing to take the consequences to be on the side of what is right. If we say we want and value freedom we all have to live with the consequences.”

Karen Vanderjagt

“I can’t walk into a store and not get looks if I don’t wear a mask. If I do wear a mask I get looks from people who aren’t wearing a mask. It has caused more division than I can tell you and our Constitutional rights have been stripped.”

Jan Schapiro

“This is not a pandemic. The emergency is over by every definition but yet we still tout that we are in an emergency and this is a pandemic. The remedy has been worse than the disease itself by magnitudes.”

Greg Befort

“Even though I know that there are many exemptions that you have written in there, I strongly feel it is time that we let this go and try to get back to our life. We need to get these lifted. By lifting these restrictions our scared citizens, our business owners that feel that they have to have these mask restrictions in their stores, by lifting this they are going to feel more comfortable to come back out. That everything is starting to become okay again. We can’t keep living in this fear and this dark.”

Sara Jones

“We are not in a health crisis. There is no justification for business, school, and recreation shutdowns here or mandatory wearing of face coverings in public. Immediately stop controlling free citizens with irrational, unreasonable, universal mandates. Officials have overstepped their authority.”

Janet Grippi

“I’m watching a tyrannical government that is federal, state, county, city destroy our constitutional republic promoting a false flag event.”

Brian Leffler

“Hospitality is hurting. Our town is more locally owned than anything else. Small businesses are struggling. You are sending out a message of fear and power. If you truly care to see our town thrive and pull through this alleged pandemic, remove this unconstitutional proclamation.”

Corinna Rangel

“I’m an adult. I would like to make an adult choice of wearing a mask or not. If somebody is afraid of getting the virus then they have that choice too. Me not wearing a mask is not going to give them the virus.”

Candace Marquez

“Being mandated to cover my face, personally I feel accosted, I feel pressed on, and I don’t think that I am alone in that. We are looking to you to relieve us of an unnecessary proclamation. Without that we are all either following along or we are in rebellion. Things are becoming hostile.”

Chris Young

“This whole thing should have never happened. I’m not blaming any of you folks - its the whole country. The whole thing should have never happened. So right now is the time to fix it.”

John Yolla

“If you create a mandate, a law, or anything that is unconstitutional it is null-and-void. It is unenforceable and the citizenry does not have to obey it… You as a body are required to enforce the Constitution and to do the things that are right in this city. So I’m going to suggest to you to make this a sanctuary city -- a Constitutional sanctuary city where we support the Constitution.”

-Brian Mitchell

“You said, ‘It is the job of the city council to fight for the rights of our citizens.’ So I just wanted to remind you - please fight for the rights of your citizens.”

Bonnie Toy referring to a comment in a previous meeting by Councilmember David Lane

“Mohave County is not like the other counties. For example, Maricopa County’s neighbor cities and sister cities are all on top of each other. We are different. We are 65 miles away from Kingman and 65 miles away from Bullhead and they are 40 miles away from each other. Unfortunately Havasu is being punished for other parts of the county.”

State Senator Sonny Borrelli (R-Lake Havasu City)

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(90) comments

IcePick

Bunch of Sheep!

BigBob

That they are, however most of us support their gene pool cleansing events as a way to ... well, you know.

1947

This is getting tiring!

hvnfun

The trumpers have taken blind ignorance to a new level, how many of them go to the doctor and follow their medical advice yet when trump tells them to ignore the expert medical advice they all jump on the wagon. Pretty amazing, he said he could shoot someone in the head and his followers would still follow, I guess causing 100,000's of deaths shows he was right.

deaton

“how many of them go to the doctor and follow their medical advice yet when trump tells them to ignore the expert medical advice they all jump on the wagon.” Me, BigBob, me! Count me in! For sure! Keep posting the “Stack-O-Lies”, you have changed no minds and accomplished nothing except providing entertainment for the thinking folks here. Keep it up BigBob, this is fun! [thumbup][tongue][love] Deaton

Hcarolyn

Trump didn't tell anyone to ignore anything. Stop lying.

eeyo

I can't believe the people quoted in this article actually want to end masking. Look around you.....nothing has changed. People are still getting sick and/or dying everyday. Pockets of cases are popping up again all over the world when people let their guard down. There is no vaccine and it may be a long way off. I've been a lifelong conservative and feel strongly our representatives should be out to protect all of us, not just a few special interests. I wear a mask every time I go out as do all of my friends and all of us have age as an underlying condition. If our representatives don't have our backs, maybe we need some new representatives. It's no wonder liberals are moving in...Republicans are kicking the doors open for them.

Objective Dialectic

eeyo [thumbup]

deaton

Objective D., yesterday BigBob was referring to a women opinion writer as a “Broad”. I was wondering if that characterization of women, get’s thumbs up [thumbup] from you? [beam] Deaton

Hcarolyn

Less than 1% are dying from this disease. Now Ducey is feeling so powerful with his newfound control he wants to force us to wear masks during flu season. This is outrageous and against our constitutional rights. You want to wear a mask then wear one. You want to be a sheep then be a sheep and cower indoors and hide under your bed, The rest of us want to get back to our lives.

BigBob

Look at that! Here is an example of a person who would have spread the 1918/19 mis-named Spanish Flue because of their "rights." But don't get me wrong, I fully support all of you who are in the gene pool cleansing Army and I know many of my peers (people who wear masks) also support your "rights."

hruns100s

[thumbup]

23merkaba

Interesting how there isn't widespread COVID in Sweden or Africa (do your own research I'm leaving you breadcrumbs)

Objective Dialectic

So no comment to any of my rebuttals against your 'claims'? See ya. We won't miss your ignorance.

azbeancounter

Follow the breadcrumbs od.

BigBob

What exactly are "breadcrumbs" - oh yeah something you feed to stupid birds and the only stupid birds here are the followers of a con-man, liar and thief currently killing off Americans with his lies.

BigBob

Why would find that "interesting?" Actually it's quite distressing, but to be honest I am more concerned with the number of Americans who have died, are dying and will die because of the ineptitude and lies of trump. Why don't you even mention those facts?

Hcarolyn

Before you go blaming Trump as you live to do - learn some freaking facts.

This virus has been around since at least last November - we were not informed by the World Health Organization until the end of JANUARY! One week later against all recommendations Trump instituted a travel ban from China. Your guy Biden called him a Xenophobe and said he would never shut down travel from China - though today he claims he would do so. Your gal Nancy Pelosi in February accused Trump of pushing panic [funny now she accuses him of not panicking] and she told everyone to go on down to Chinatown and celebrate. In NY who really infected most of the country, including Arizona per DNA testing of the virus here, they didn't shut down the subways - or disinfect them - and Di Blasio in March laughed at Trump and said this is a nothingburger [his words] and people should go out and celebrate, go to dinner, a play, and his health director told everyone to go to Chinatown and celebrate the big Chinese New Year dinner. Trump has pushed hard for a vaccine and one will likely be out by the end of the year.

BTW when your guy Biden was running the H1N1 response 69 million Americans came down with it - we didn't have a shut down, we didn't have a panic and according to the man who worked for him on this at the time the entire thing was a total disaster and, according to him, we were lucky more didn't die than did.

Obama/Biden were told 3 times they needed to replace all the PPE used up in H1N1 and they didn't replace it. States are supposed to have their own emergency supplies - they didn't. Trump amped up American production and had them manufactured here - they turned a Ford factory into a medical device manufacturer literally overnight.

Less than 1% of Americans have died from Covid - and over 50% of those deaths were people in nursing homes who were already sick and people like Coumo sent sick with Covid patients to nursing homes even though TRUMP had send the USS Comfort there in record time, turned the Javits enter into a field hospital and Samaritans Purse had set up a field hospital in Central Park. Instead of using any of those three sources Cuomo still demanded they be sent to nursing homes - killing at least 11,000 in that manner. The heads of the nursing homes even told him that his edict would kill people and he ignored them. Mayor nipple rings is responsible for those deaths. He had 4 x the deaths in NY than happened in Florida which has a larger population than NY - and the deaths in nursing homes in Florida was quite low. Arizona, too sent sick to nursing homes - so Ducey also has blood on his hands.

Last - one of the commonalities in the Covid deaths is obesity - look around Havasu - we have a obesity problem here and wearing masks isn't going to solve that!!!!! Putting down the sweets and the fast food will. People who are obese are more prone to diabetes, hypertension, heart disease and then you have the smokers and the lung diseases that go with it..... And even with that less than 1% are getting the disease and dying from it - this is only slightly more than the annual influenza virus.

Oh and Trump has been ending wars and bringing out men home so he isn't getting our men killed either.

BigBob

Heavy sigh! I know everyone is getting tired of the following, but facts are facts and never change. This how we wound up with 195,000 dead Americans because of trump's ineptitude -

1. He shut down the Global Health Security and Bio-defense agency.

2. He fired Homeland Security Advisor Tom Bossart in 2018, whose job was to coordinate a response to global pandemics. He was not replaced.

3. In 2018 Dr. Luciana Borio, the NSC director for medical and bio-defense preparedness left the job and was not replaced.

4. In 2018, at the direction of trump, the CDC stopped funding epidemic prevention activities in 39 countries, including CHINA.

5. The NSC’s Senior Director for Global Health Security and biodefense, Tim Ziemer, left the position on May 8, 2018 and was not replaced. The departure occurred the same day that the WHO announced a new Ebola outbreak in Africa.

6. In June 2019, the trump administration discontinued the CDC medical epidemiologist position that was embedded in China – That person left China in July, a few months before the coronavirus hit China. The position’s purpose was to DETECT disease outbreaks IN CHINA.

7. Amid the worldwide outbreak a 19% cut to the budget of the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention, a 10% cut to Public Health Services, and a 7% cut to Global Health Services, the organizations that respond to public health threats were all engineered by, yep, trump.

8. One of the more brilliant ides from trump was ingesting disinfectants as a potential “cure.”

9. He chose Mike Pence, not a doctor, to oversee the US pandemic response.

10. Trump sowed doubt about the severity of the virus, using the word HOAX at events and rallies, even doing so at events where the virus was spread.

11. In yet another brilliant move trump declined to use the WHO’s test. In January, within a week of finding out about China’s mysterious virus, Berlin virologists produced the first diagnostic test. By February, the WHO shipped the tests to 60 countries. Trump declined taking any WHO tests even as a temporary bridge.

12. Trump pretended the virus had been contained many, many times. You’ve seen his quotes.

13. On January 31 he imposed travel restrictions on China. Nevertheless, he continued to allow China flights with over 40,000 people coming in. The US did NOT test anyone arriving from 14 Trump stopped distribution of useful information concerning the pandemic many times. He halted CDC guideline release as states began to open, later allowing release of watered-down guidelines on May 20, long after many states reopened. Church reopening guidelines were deleted. Within 48 hours of the release, he demanded that churches be opened immediately.

15. On March 19, trump said: “Nobody knew there would be a pandemic or epidemic of this proportion.” Daily intelligence briefings, internal memos, and warnings from past Presidents offer evidence this was NOT true.

16. On March 20 with a straight face trump tells America: “I don’t take responsibility at all.”

19. On April 21, trump removes the nation’s top vaccine expert, Dr. Rick Bright, as head of the CDC’s Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority. The removal is retribution for Dr. Bright challenging the trump’s pseudo-science claims, particularly his unwillingness to support trump’s rabid endorsement of an unproven drug.

20. Trump relentlessly searches for scapegoats – he has blamed the CDC, China, Obama, the WHO, “flawed” studies, the Democrats, Pelosi, governors, and he continues to seek out new scapegoats and distractions to deflect.

A mask is not a political statement, it is an IQ test.

Very Stable Genius 2020

We went back to business as usual in May. People went out to bars, restaurants and other public venues without masks and social distancing and within a month the ERs were full, hospital beds full, ICU beds full, morgues full and Arizona had the highest COVID-19 numbers in the Country. It’s no mystery what will happen if we do what these Anti-mask/My rights people want — we’ll be right back in the same place. Sadly, Senator Sonny Borrelli and Reps. Biasucci and Cobb are supporting theses lies about COVID-19, the same ones Trump & Company pushed from the beginning and now we know Trump knew how dangerous COVID-19 was all along and didn’t care how many people got sick or died. Apparently Senator Borrelli and Representatives Cobb and Biasucci don’t care either.

Objective Dialectic

Very Stable Genius [thumbup]

WendyB

How did we ever survive before Covid-19? For a genius, you should Know that correlation does not mean causation. Are you willing to provide peer reviewed, RCT results to support your assertions? You are familiar with RCT’s? Very simple.....Put up or shut up.

Objective Dialectic

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2007800

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2#Sec3

WendyB

These are NOT peer reviewed RCT studies and you know it. Did you read the methodology? Did you read the conclusions? One study only addressed “symptomatic” patients. Both studies were done in 2020 and the second had to acknowledge their association with the WHO. This is your example of Peer Reviewed, Random Controlled Trials (the gold standard)?

Objective Dialectic

Both of these articles are RCT peer reviewed articles. An RCT article is one that "aims to reduce certain sources of bias when testing the effectiveness of new treatments; this is accomplished by randomly allocating subjects to two or more groups, treating them differently, and then comparing them with respect to the measured response." Essentially, an RCT article takes a group of people and randomly tests them in two or more groups in which one group receives the 'real' treatment, and the other receives a placebo. Since both of these articles are testing the efficacy of masks, it makes sense to choose a group of individuals with respiratory symptoms, separate them in two groups (one of which wears a mask [the "treatment" or in this case, the device to reduce transmission/spread] and the other doesn't wear masks [the "placebo" or in this case, not wearing a device to reduce transmission), and test the viral RNA emitted from each group. Also, see my comment further down this thread regarding the WHO; their affiliation does not make the peer-reviewed article any less valid. Your bias against the WHO and CDC is a perfect example of Americans being swindled into conspiracy theories and no longer believing in science because of the political mayhem that has risen in America during this pandemic.

Also, where are your peer-reviewed RCT articles disproving the efficacy of masks?

Objective Dialectic

Also, you are partly right. Correlation does not ALWAYS mean causation, however, there are cases where correlative data is later determined to be causative with further testing and trials. In this case, although we may have no empirical evidence as to why cases suddenly spiked in Arizona, do you have any other theories besides opening the economy too quickly and increased tourism? I can't think of any other logical reason as to why cases would suddenly spike only a few weeks after we opened everything up.

WendyB

Perhaps.

It involves your false premise that a “spike” in “cases” correlates in any way to a measure of health in this community. Will you acknowledge the flaws in the testing methodology and data being used to “prop up” these numbers? What can you extrapolate from emphasising “ cases...” Here is a more relevant question: What is the correlation between this disease and death? Who is really at risk of dying from Covid-19? Did you read the CDC’s own report regarding this correlation? Be honest. Isn’t this the real metric that really counts when it comes down to defining and propagating a pandemic?

Objective Dialectic

Please tell me what the flaws are in the methodology. And no, the disease to death ratio is not the metric that defines or "really counts" in defining a pandemic. In fact the only metric that defines a pandemic is the rapid spread of disease over a large geographic area. Considering this virus is global and has an extremely high infection rate (by the way the infection rate is what makes this virus deadly; not the death rate itself), it is a pandemic. Period.

hruns100s

[thumbup]

BigBob

Then there is this - A new study found 260,000 new cases stemming from the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally, where around 360,000 bikers descended upon the Mount Rushmore State from August 7 to 16. And now we will await the result of the latest Havasu Gene Pool Cleansing event over Labor Dy weekend.

WendyB

Are you implying that those full ICU or other beds (or morgues) you spoke of applied to Havasu during May? Isn’t this where you live? Again, “Highest Covid 19 numbers” mean what exactly? Go ask the Havasu hospital administrators or nurses in this community how many full time nurses have been furloughed (even temporarily) since Covid-19 measures arrived here because of empty beds and cancelled procedures.

Objective Dialectic

I don't think BigBob was implying that at all; maybe you shouldn't be so quick to insinuate? Just because Havasu's hospital was not overrun (although it did at one point get close to capacity) does not mean that other hospitals have not been overrun during this crisis. I dare you to take your lame propaganda and say it to the face of someone who has lost someone during this pandemic because their loved one could not get into a hospital because all beds were taken. I dare you to say it to any one of the social/healthcare workers that had to help load up trucks of dead bodies. I dare you to say it to a true Doctor or pathologist who studies the spread of infectious disease. Your attempts to discredit this pandemic is sad and sickening to the many who have suffered or died during this time. All of us want this to be over with, all of us want the economy to open again, all of us want to be healthy. Unfortunately, this isn't something that we can just say "oh well" to because the death toll will rise dramatically. The most practical thing we can do to help keep death rate down, and keep the economy afloat is take a few measures to slow the spread.

Very Stable Genius 2020

Objective Dialectic — [thumbup] Absolutely 100% agree.

Drake

Agree with everything you said!

hruns100s

And it is a very simple thing to do, wear a mask to help your neighbors.

Hcarolyn

Our ERs and hospitals were busy with all the things people had to put off because of the virus. Turns out of the 189,000 in the entire country who have died of Covid only 1% were directly from Covid - many of the others had the antibody and coroners coded Covid on the death certificate. Since they had to start accounting for their numbers many places around the country have been changing their statistics -- downward. If you look at how many die in Havasu in a given year out death rate is still about the same as any other year - only now they blame all the deaths on Covid because if you use Covid you are paid more!

BigBob

Once again we see a person posting one of trump’s lies in order to mis-lead the intellectually challenged.

The liar trump, on 30 August, posted this, “This week the CDC quietly updated the Covid number to admit that only 6% of all the 153,504 deaths recorded actually died from Covid. That’s 9,210 deaths. The other 94% had 2 to 3 other serious illnesses and the overwhelming majority were of very advanced age.” A day later he deleted the stupid tweet, but it was too late, the dim-bulb nation had already started spreading his lie.

Now for the truth – Following the liar’s comment the CDC explained the chart, “shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned.” What that means is 6% of those who died with COVID-19 through 15 August did not have any oter reported conditions.

To simply for the comprehension challenged let’s turn to Dr Fauci, who on ABC’s Good Morning America on 31 August explained what the information from the CDC meant - He noted the 6% figure includes cases where COVID-19 was listed as the only cause of death. “That does not mean someone who has hypertension or diabetes who dies of Covid didn’t die of Covid-19. They did.”

So for those who repeat that trash – STOP LYING!

Tbiondo

Show me the photos of over flowing emergency rooms, people standing in line to get in, people dying in the hospital hallways! This is all fake! Ask yourself, if this virus was so bad, why aren't the homeless dying from it??? Per the WHO and CDC A symptomatic people can not transfer the virus! If you don't have a temperature you are not a carrier. Remove the bloody masks and install temperature reading devises at the doors to businesses. I would not be opposed to leaving the devises up after this fake epidemic is over! got a temperature, can't come in. Simple!

Objective Dialectic

Your ignorance is astounding! To attempt to reference the CDC and WHO that "asymptomatic people cannot transfer the virus" is hilarious! Here, educate yourself:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/prevention.html

On this CDC page, the 7th bullet point clearly states "Some recent studies have suggested that COVID-19 may be spread by people who are not showing symptoms."

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/question-and-answers-hub/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses

Here is the Who's website. Under the section labeled "Can Covid-19 be caught from someone who has no symptoms" it clearly states "Some reports have indicated that people with no symptoms can transmit the virus. It is not yet known how often it happens. WHO is assessing ongoing research on the topic and will continue to share updated findings"

Lastly, a quick google search will show plenty of instances of full hospitals.

https://www.google.com/search?q=coronavirus+hospitals+full&rlz=1C1GCEU_enUS821US821&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiz_JOCgOLrAhUbJzQIHeZzCvoQ_AUoAnoECAsQBA&biw=1440&bih=797

Please educate yourself before spouting a bunch of trash that can endanger the lives of others!

hruns100s

[thumbup]

Ninetoes

Azbeancounter.. Almost 200,000 dead from Coronavirus,with over 6000 of them children,and you say “Take the frickin' mask off and live your life! “ If I meet you on the street,please cross to the other side. I value my life,and the lives of others!

Objective Dialectic

ninetoes [thumbup]

azbeancounter

Well, I won't be crossing to the other side of the street. Neither will I enter your airspace unless you enter mine. Don't worry, you'll be safe. I mean, we're 'all in this together', right?

Drake

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azbeancounter

Wow! Now I understand why we're in the mess we're in. Seems like the vast majority of commenters actually believe that masks have some value other than for control of the masses. Take the frickin' mask off and live your life! This 'bug' is way overblown by both the media and the controlling wannabe dictator bureaucrats. Educate yourself through reference to sources of information other than from msm.

Objective Dialectic

For your reference azbeancounter. These are peer-reviewed scientific articles that have nothing to do with msn. Why don't you educate yourself?

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2007800

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2#Sec3

Also, Trump just got caught with his lies of playing down the severity of the virus. It is more deadly than the flu, and if we had not taken any actions such as social distancing, wearing masks, and adhering to quarantine, the spread and death toll of this would have been far greater.

BigBob

You just can't help yourself when it comes to stupid comments can you? But remember I am totally in support of you and all of the others involved in the gene pool cleansing events.

azbeancounter

I appreciate yous support bb.

23merkaba

If they launch COVID 2.0 It will most likely be from deliberate brucellosis infection in the food supply.

BigBob

Who is "they?" And where did you obtain your medical degree, Trump U?

Objective Dialectic

I also can't believe we voted Nancy Campbell in.... for her to speak on behalf of this group is appalling and actually somewhat disrespectful to the Council she was just elected to.

happy coot

So the conspiracy nuts start falling from the trees , are we going to let 17 of them try to endanger the health of the majority of citizens of our town??? Bye the way the guy in the photo doesn't need a mask he needs to go on a diet !!!

WendyB

Ad hominem attacks are all you have to offer? One logical fallacy after another.

BigBob

Now carefully explain your reasoning that led to this stupid comment, "One logical fallacy after another." Please be accurate in your assessment

Drake

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Objective Dialectic

Unbelievable. I watched the Council meeting and couldn't believe the trash these people actually believe. Given the recent information that came out about Trump actively lying to the American public to "downplay" the virus and how deadly it is, I wonder if these folks are still singing the same tune.

RESIST

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WendyB

This is Objective Dialectic?

Objective Dialectic

Yep, that's me [beam]

BigBob

Yes that's who he is. Why is that important to you?

shutthefrontdoor

Amazing to me that some of these intellects make it through their daily routines without hurting themselves. Some are sounding boards for that imbecile draft dodger that hangs out in our White House in between golf outings who could have saved lives by doing his job!

RESIST

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1502

Fact. Havasu has the lowest educated population in the country. Next time you go to the dentist tell him not to wear his mask and shield. He wears it to protect him or herself from you.

23merkaba

Define education...

1502

1. Above a 12th grade education. If you want to be a doctor, nurse, dentist CPA, engineer, etc. you need a higher level oh education. Havasu is the the lowest in the country.

BigBob

Gosh, you would think even the dumbest of the dumb would know what education is, but since you don’t, here you go, “Education is the process of facilitating learning, or the acquisition of knowledge, skills, values, beliefs, and habits. Educational methods include teaching, training, storytelling, discussion and directed research.”

We realize, along with science and medicine, Republicans hate education because an educated populace would wipe them from the face of the Earth.

Objective Dialectic

Interesting statement 23merkaba. If you are re-using the statement that "crime-ridden cities are ran by democrats" then maybe you need to do more research. Yes, most crime-ridden cities are run by democratic mayors. Do you know why that is? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that over 70% of mayors are democrats; it's just a matter of statistics that because most mayors are democratic, and there is violence going on in large,metropolitan cities, that the majority of those cities are democratic mayors. Secondly, when looking at hotspots for where violence has struck the country amidst the BLM movement, it's not surprise violence is erupting in largely populated areas that are run primarily by democratic mayors, but also by some republican mayors. For example, San Diego and Miami are both run by republican officials, yet somehow they are considered a hotspot for violence during this time. Why is that? Can you explain that to me?

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WendyB

You are proving your own point.

Objective Dialectic

Yes, I am proving my point , thank you for noticing.

BigBob

Yes, he often has to follow up due to the ignorance of those responding to him and each time he very effectively proves his point. Just out of curiosity is there anytime soon we will see something of interest from you?

Ninetoes

Wow..I had someone in a local store the other day say that "Masks take more lives than they save because you are breathing in your own germs" I was speechless. How do you argue with stupidity on that level?

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BigBob

I wear a mask, I go out only once a week, I maintain social distancing - all by choice. But I admit to being a person who respects science and medical professionals. However I also support those who believe in the Gene Pool Cleansing theory of life and don't want to wear masks. To be honest their willingness to martyr themselves in the name of a silly man-child is truly astounding.

23merkaba

Next Dr. Bob can tell us all how a loosely piece of dirty cotton hanging from your face stops virus particles

BigBob

Who is "Dr Bob?" However, I will address your concern. I feel anything that prevents the spread of germs between people is a valuable thing, be it a "a loosely piece of dirty cotton" (whatever that means) or a high-tech face shield. But, please, do not misunderstand me, I also feel it important that people who want to involve themselves with gene pool cleansing be encouraged to do so.

WendyB

Your “feelings” aren’t in any way related to science Bob. Provide evidence to support your assertion. Are you familiar with peer-reviewed, Random Controlled trials? Are you familiar with how the science community regards them? Did you ever ask yourself why scientists and health experts who don’t tow the CDC, or WHO narrative are being censored? This is not a bogus left/right political paradigm here Bob. We are being fast-tracked to fascism and you are being complicit with your divide and conquer rhetoric. Bring me the evidence Bob.

Objective Dialectic

Actually WendyB, I would argue it was the WHO and CDC who were being censored after Trump ordered them to stop releasing test data that was valuable to the states and the scientists studying this outbreak. Instead, Trump chose to glorify quack scientists who offered hydroxychloroquine as a treatment (even though peer-reviewed RCT articles proved that it had little to no effect [https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638]) or even promoted the injection of bleach.

Objective Dialectic

23merkaba, here are real, peer-reviewed studies showing the efficacy of masks. Stop refuting basic science. If you are not a scientist, then don't act like you know anything on the subject.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2007800

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2#Sec3

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simon1dog

Dr. Nancy Campbell? NOT! Your asthma is NOT caused by a mask, Mrs. Campbell. It's due to the increased smoke in our air plus pollen and dust from wind. Masks actually help in this area. Ask any doctor!

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RESIST

The ignorance in this town is astounding!!! Yes, there still is a pandemic! Yes, there is still an emergency! How selfish can you people be? We just lost another resident from Covid 19! We just had a huge influx of visitors over Labor Day and God only knows how many were active Covid carriers! You parade around with your flags and guns slung over your shoulders pretending to be Patriots; well you are not! A Patriot is one who acts for the good of the Country without a selfish thought! 191,000 of our citizens are dead! Why? Because trump failed us! Now some of our leadership are trying to institute measure to stop the spread of this disease and you whine and moan about your rights! How long are you in the store? 30 minutes? Is that too much of a sacrifice to save a life? And, no, wearing a mask did not cause an exacerbation of your asthma! But, I can assure you, Covid 19 will do a deadly job on your asthma! One fed up nurse!

23merkaba

They admitted 90% of the test kits are fake. Big Pharma just made 13 billion off people that live in fear

BigBob

Who is "they?" And could you please provide us with empirical evidence that what you posted is in anyway factual?

Objective Dialectic

LOL BigBob, I commented on this before your comment had populated, and we said exactly the same thing [lol]

23merkaba

NY TIMES....unless...it's just fake news

Objective Dialectic

Who are "they?" You might want to try sourcing your claims if you ever hope to change anyone's mind.

Objective Dialectic

23merkaba, if you are referring to the NYtimes article that stated Antibody tests could deliver a false positive nearly 70% of the time, then you need to re-word your original statement as it is still inherently false. Or if you are referring to the RT-PCR tests (the throat/nose swab test), these have been noted as possibly having a 40% false-negative test rate. In either case, this does not mean that 90% of "test kits" are "fake." All pharmaceutical tests have a range of error; the fact that the antibody tests (which simply tell you if your body has fought off the virus already, and has antibodies in your immune system) are producing a 90% false-positive test rate simply means that these can't solely be relied on to determine if you PREVIOUSLY had the virus. The fact that the RT-PCR tests (which are the tests you take if you suspect you currently have covid-19) have a 40% false-NEGATIVE simply means they are under-counting how many people are actually infected. This does not mean the test is fake. It means infected individuals are being under-counted as part of the testing method's range of accuracy.

Drake

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